2019-07-09 Executive Session MinutesSRA
July 9, 2019
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City of Salem Massachusetts
Executive Session Meeting Minutes
Board or Committee: Redevelopment Authority, Regular Meeting
Date and Time: Wednesday, July 9, 2019 at 6:00 PM
Meeting Location: 98 Washington Street, Third Floor Conference Room
SRA Members Present: Chair Grace Napolitano, Gary Barrett, David Guarino, Dean
Rubin
SRA Members Absent: Russ Vickers
Others Present: Tom Daniel – Director of Planning and Community
Development, Kathryn Newhall-Smith
Recorder: Colleen Brewster
Chair Napolitano calls the meeting to order. Roll call was taken.
Executive Session
1. To review the submittals to the Request for Qualifications for the redevelopment of real property
located at 32-34 Federal Street and 252 Bridge Street, Salem, MA because an open meeting may have
a detrimental effect on the negotiating position of the public body.
Chair Napolitano: Motion to request an Executive Session.
Barrett, Guarino, Napolitano, Rubin. Passes: 4-0.
The SRA entered into executive session at 6:00PM.
Mr. Daniel stated that no applicant has asked what other applicants had submitted an RFQ. Chair
Napolitano asked what information is public record at this time. Mr. Daniel replied who submitted an
RFQ, what they submitted must remain confidential at this time. Mr. Guarino asked if the proposal
interviews will be public. Mr. Daniel replied that the public will hear details based on their responses
of the interviewers.
Mr. Daniel discussed the proposed process. They could interview 4 teams each night if the Board
chooses to interview everyone. As an interview, this stage is about qualifications and those that did
more than others shouldn’t be considered more responsive. The Board needs to determine each
team’s capabilities and previous projects through discussion. Questions can be submitted to each
team in advance. It can be all in closed session but the down side is that it lacks transparency;
however, an open meeting with public engagement means the public doesn’t have the information
that the SRA does. The proposals may be dealt with differently, with a public meeting with no public
comment. The other risk is some members of the public have connections with those that have
submitted. In a previous position, any members of the public had to disclose if they were affiliated
with any team members.
Chair Napolitano suggested the SRA restrict other development teams from being present, is it fair to
do that if people who attend the first see what occurred at the second night. Also, no public comment
should be allowed because the public will get bogged down in the details. She also questioned
whether they should interview everyone or narrow the list down now.
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Mr. Guarino asked if the public’s interest in development is more of acute now than with past
projects. Mr. Daniel replied that this will be a two-step process this time and that additional time
changes the process. This is only the first step, not the final step, and he wants their work to be
transparent. He wants it to be public and at the end to allow public comment. They can remove any
pro-forma information since this is an RFQ not and RFP. Tell everyone they will limit questions to
qualifications only and doing that in public gets the information out to the public.
Mr. Daniel stated that concepts should be included in the discussion. Mr. Barrett replied that the
concept targets what the SRA is looking for. Information will get out on the first night and that will
affect the second night. Chair Napolitano echoed those concerns with interviews on separate nights
and agreed to public meeting with no public comment. She suggested the list of interviewees be
narrowed down tonight and to interview them all on one night. Mr. Rubin stated that he had no
problem closing this to the public. Those assigned with selecting the interviewees are tasked with
putting the best teams into play. He suggested they provide the questions in advance so there is no
leaking of information, and they are only narrowing things down at this point so the public can be
present.
Mr. Guarino asked why they wouldn’t want a public presence. Ms. Newhall-Smith replied that this is
not a public hearing. Mr. Guarino noted that there is a public perception that the City is known to
have the Mayor making the decisions without pubic input. Chair Napolitano stated that public
discussion can easily get off topic and there will only be 40 minutes per applicant. She asked if that is
fair to the applicant but knows that the RFP process will be very different. Mr. Rubin suggested they
allow public comment but limit their time to comment. Ms. Newhall-Smith suggested they allow
public comment at the start of the Tuesday session only and people must sign up in advance. City
Council allows the public 2 minutes. Chair Napolitano noted that they’ve already heard the public
comments in regards to these properties.
Mr. Guarino suggested the 8 proposals be reviewed in 3 or 4 nights. Mr. Zahler stated that the
applicants with specific ideas may not go much further with the RFP or change their direction. This
may be the only time to determine if their idea is what the City wants. Mr. Daniel replied that the
interview and deliberation are different. Deliberation gets the reaction to their ideas but in the RFP,
these will be available for all to see. They can be specific with what they want for the Law Library,
since it will be more of a community space than for the tenants of the buildings. The SRA can
suggest the applicant consider certain things. There is limited time on first night and comments on
day 2 about day 1 isn’t fair. Mr. Rubin stated that the public comment hasn’t changed in the year
since it’s been on the agenda of the SRA, but it will give them a chance to be heard even if it’s only
for 2 minutes. Mr. Daniel asked if the SRA was agreeing to public meeting with no comments
permitted except for Tuesday at the start of the meeting. Mr. Guarino stated that not being public
concerns him but someone from The Salem News could write a story the first night. Mr. Daniel
replied that that will happen at a later time and details of this interview shouldn’t be released until
after the interviews. He wants to keep this process controlled and it’s okay to have a public meeting
with no public comment. Mr. Guarino noted that the second night people could be at an advantage.
Mr. Rubin questioned whether the applicants would be at an advantage, like an open book test where
everyone will know the questions going in. Mr. Guarino asked if they would limit themselves to
those questions. Mr. Daniel stated that there may be follow up questions based on their answers. The
SRA can request that only one team is present and the next team can wait in another conference room
out of respect for the team being interviewed. Chair Napolitano and Mr. Guarino agreed. Ms.
Newhall-Smith noted that no one requested to be on the first night.
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Mr. Daniel stated that they selected 40 minutes for each applicant with 5 min of flex time and no
power point presentations are allowed. Mr. Rubin asked whether it would it help to at least have their
proposal available to put on the screen. Mr. Daniel replied the SRA board will need to bring their
packets only and nothing to go on the screen for someone else to photograph and share.
Mr. Daniel stated that two SRA members met with Matt Zahler who seems to be a good fit. Mr.
Guarino added that Mr. Zahler brought up issues that the SRA hadn’t thought of, such as; knowing
how many historic tax credits projects a developer has in que because they are limited to two, and it
takes a couple of years to get them, meaning the team would need to wait 4 or 5 years to apply until
one of their other projects has been completed. Mr. Guarino noted that Mr. Zahler informed them
that the applicant proposing an addition means they won’t be able to obtain historic tax credits. Chair
Napolitano noted that from her previous meetings she determined that if more than 50% is for public
use then historic tax credits are complicated to obtain. Mr. Daniel noted one applicant’s claim to be
able to complete the project within 18 months.
Mr. Rubin suggested Mr. Zahler attend the interviews to help highlight any concerns with potential
developers. Mr. Daniel suggested that afterwards they debrief with Mr. Zahler on the initial reactions
and Matt can provide his observations for each applicant. The SRA may want a second round of
questions with certain applicants to determine the final 3 applicants to interview. It can be played by
ear and narrowed down after the discussion. Selecting 4 instead of 3 would be okay if necessary.
The interviews could be in August and open to the public. This will allow the SRA to discuss adding
more specific goals, such as a connection to the train station.
Mr. Daniel asked if initially they should invite all 8 applicants for interviews. Chair Napolitano and
Mr. Barrett agreed. Mr. Daniel stated that Fawkes met with Andrew Shapiro and Matt Coogan in the
past. He’s unknown by many in the City and has been inappropriate with City staff. Mr. Guarino
suggested they eliminate their application. Mr. Rubin replied that he was okay with their proposal
because their concept was creative and he didn’t get caught up in the presentation by it not being
spiral bound with cover pages and imagery. Ms. Newhall-Smith noted her concern with his ability to
pay for his concept. Mr. Rubin noted that The Howard Hughes property is simple construction on a
large space of land, like a little City but it’s lovely and simple. He asked if who submitted a proposal
vs. who gets interviewed become public record. Mr. Daniel replied that this will eventually become
public record and there could be a statement as to why the ones not interviewed were eliminated.
Mr. Guarino suggested they reject a proposal based on sparse proposal given their lack of robust
qualifications, despite their ideas. One proposal eliminated the crescent lot, which could be
developed on its own. Chair Napolitano believed their desire not to use the crescent lot to be a
concern, when everyone else seems to be using the crescent lots to finance the court buildings. Mr.
Daniel noted when it came to the Tabernacle and Bridge at 211, he told the developer that his
proposal was not contingent upon that, and the developer noted that his whole concept had them as
integral parts. Chair Napolitano suggested they put that application on hold for now.
Application Discussion:
Mr. Guarino asked if the applicants will submit answers to questions in writing. Mr. Daniel replied no, it
will be addressed at the meeting. Mr. Guarino suggested they prioritize the questions.
Barnat Development, LLC:
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Mr. Daniel stated that Sarah Barnat was formerly with Trinity and completed a project in Beverly, which
was her first project on her own. She headed ULI Boston during her break between Trinity and starting
her own company. She also had the largest team on the building tour. She’s been interested in this
opportunity for 18 months and most of her team worked with on her Beverly project. ICON worked with
North Shore CDC on the Lighthouse project as well as projects in Gloucester. They are oriented towards
sustainable development and creative, thoughtful design. Their Ch 91 experience is through Fort Point
but ICON has done some of their own too, although their historic experience hadn’t been identified.
Chair Napolitano stated that the Registry of Deeds was listed as their anchor tenant and they want Federal
and State historic tax credits, and Mr. Zahler mentioned that constructing a connector between the two
buildings could disqualify them for receiving those tax credits. Mr. Daniel replied that they can preserve
tax credits with small items or additions. Mr. Guarino noted that the Registry of Deeds space will greatly
affect this. Chair Napolitano noted that the Registry wants to own and not lease. Mr. Daniel added that
they have other potential concepts if the deeds doesn’t work. The Registry of Deeds may not want this
property anymore.
Mr. Guarino asked if there was any data on a demand for legal space within the city and if the City or
lawyers want space within the buildings. Mr. Daniel replied that there has been no demand study he’s
aware of, but it could be useful and this team has the qualifications to do this project. Chair Napolitano
noted that their focus on the Registry of Deeds concerns her. Although their experience is impressive, she
finds them to be mediocre. Mr. Guarino noted that they plan to have the court buildings operational by
2026 and he questioned how to rate that. Mr. Rubin added that this concept seemed generic and was
dependent upon public input. There is a complexity to the buildings but he believes they are qualified for
a project. Mr. Daniel stated that their qualifications are not defined and there is flexibility with their
design concept. Mr. Guarino noted that the architect had a lot of MBTA experience which would be
beneficial. The SRA agreed to interview the applicant.
Cabot and Cabot:
Chair Napolitano stated that she did not find them impressive, she has concerned with their lack of Ch. 91
experience and providing public access wasn’t a concern of theirs which is a turn off. There is no public
funding and no focus on public access. Mr. Rubin stated that they have strong residential experience,
which would be beneficial for the crescent lot, although he wasn’t sold on their historic qualifications.
Chair Napolitano noted that the applicant didn’t refence any Ch. 91 experience for the crescent lot. Mr.
Daniel stated that they have a lot of history since opening in 1904 and worked on significant projects over
the years. They have adaptive reuse experience at St. Gabriel’s in Brighton, Quad buildings in
Cambridge which was a PUD, and a multi-family in Woburn near the Anderson Station. The crescent lot
if fully financeable on a private basis but what about the Court buildings? They may need some public
subsidy on it. They stated that they are not a slow developer and their timelines are tight; however, this
project is complex. Mr. Rubin and Mr. Guarino noted that their sense of urgency is a concern and they
seem to be rushing this project. Mr. Daniel replied that their project timeline doesn’t include the Ch 91
which could take a year on its own. Ms. Newhall-Smith added that their proposal lacked detail, they have
no architect, historical or Ch. 91 experience, so their team finalized. They should have more than the
developer at this point. Also, no public space was proposed which is needed. Chair Napolitano noted
that it hadn’t even been considered and there was no flexibility with the idea of including it, their goal
seems to only be residential and moving onto the next job. Ms. Newhall-Smith added that with their
experience they should at least suggest a range of unit numbers and not just the maximum allowed. Chair
Napolitano and Mr. Guarino stated that they are okay with eliminating this application.
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Fawkes:
Mr. Rubin noted their suggestion of shutting down the intersection to create a lively downtown area
would be a major traffic concern, although he appreciated their thought to rethink the space. The SRA
agreed not to interview this team.
JHR Development:
Mr. Daniel stated that the Rockett’s completed Pickering Wharf and Hilary Rockett has completed work
elsewhere in Salem. Salem State passed on this property despite their long-term goal of having a
presence downtown because they don’t have the funds to take on this partnership at this time. Mr. Rubin
asked if there was value in a “local team” that knows the city better than others and if that gives them a
bonus point as a team that knows the City. Ms. Newhall-Smith replied only if they are qualified. Chair
Napolitano noted that while other candidate they don’t know all these many of these team’s members they
know to have a good track record. She liked that they are including public access and are flexible on the
proposed institutional uses. They didn’t note their specific experience but it’s just assumed since many of
us know them. Ms. Newhall-Smith stated that they want to use the entire Superior Court building for the
Registry which could be a concern if they aren’t willing look at the feasibility of other reuses such as
residential. If the Registry goes elsewhere would it become an empty building with no use. They also
listed every possible public funding source and suggested underground parking under the green space.
Chair Napolitano noted that the outdoor plaza is a nice concept. Mr. Daniel liked Salem State, the
Museum of Justice doesn’t have the funds to support this concept. The museum head has credibility and
people willing to support it and he is pleased with their willingness to be a component of the building and
not the entire building. They have a retired Judge as part of his team. Mr. Guarino asked if there is a
market for the museum. Mr. Rubin asked what qualifies them. Mr. Daniel replied that the developer is
experienced, their attorney is qualified, and Bill Luster knows the development world. Their team has an
understanding of community buildings and values, unlike other applicants with a lack of qualifications.
Mr. Rubin stated that he didn’t see anything that indicates their ability to take on complicated projects in
their application. Chair Napolitano added that she didn’t see Ch. 91 experience but assumed their lawyer
has it which meets the threshold. Mr. Guarino stated that theirs is one of the better proposals. Mr. Barret
added that he thought their proposal was lacking but likes their team. The SRA agreed to interview the
applicant.
Lupoli Companies:
Mr. Daniel stated that the developer requested a meeting with the Mayor about Salem which coincided
with when this process started. He gave Ms. Darcy and Sal Lupoli a tour of the City. They are interested
in working with Salem but didn’t attend the tour of the space, and asked for a tour after the fact and their
request was denied. They’ve had much success in Lawrence on adaptive reuse projects and a good
historic preservation architect, formerly with Finegold Alexander but now with Fused Studios. Chair
Napolitano noted that they didn’t provide financial details or Ch 91 experience. Mr. Rubin replied that
they did discuss Ch. 91 experience but not through the use of a consultant. Mr. Barrett noted that all of
Lawrence is waterfront. Mr. Rubin added that they do qualify. Ms. Newhall-Smith stated that their
proposed additions to largely accommodate the Registry of Deeds. Chair Napolitano questioned their
green sky roof and bridge but was in favor of their Hasbro references. Ms. Newhall-Smith noted that
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without the Registry those proposed additions may go away. Chair Napolitano noted that they are
qualified. The SRA agreed to interview the applicant.
North River Partnership for Community Reinvestment, LLC:
Mr. Daniel noted that this application includes Diamond Sinacori and they are qualified. Mr. Rubin
questioned how this would this integrate with their proposed building. Ms. Newhall-Smith added that
they hadn’t finished a project before she left Newburyport and began working in Salem and one of the
Board’s questions is about project timeline. Mr. Rubin replied that there will be setbacks in a project.
Chair Napolitano questioned whether they want the same developer all over the city. Ms. Newhall-Smith
replied that the City of Beverly is using Windover repeatedly. The SRA agreed to interview the
applicant.
Trinity:
Mr. Daniel stated that this team is well qualified. Fort Point has Chapter 91 experience and Trinity does
mostly housing. Mr. Guarino noted the limited public access, suggestions of a library for residents or
Parker Brother museum. Mr. Daniel noted their tendency to stick with residential projects. Chair
Napolitano and Mr. Rubin agreed. Mr. Guarino stated that housing only won’t help ignite the area and
neither will 1,200 SF of retail on Bridge Street. Chair Napolitano noted her familiarity with their work
and their ability to make money but all they do is housing. Mr. Daniel stated that Mr. Zahler shared his
experience with Trinity, the challenge of mixed-use being a tough combination. The SRA can request
public access in some form. Chair Napolitano didn’t like that their past experience was all residential and
making the project work financially for them, even if they are qualified and a reputable firm. Mr. Zahler
mentioned that their proposal probably won’t differ very much from the RFQ. Mr. Guarino suggested
making the SRA’s requests known early on to see how the proposals may change. Ms. Newhall-Smith
noted the importance of community goals. Mr. Rubin noted the public discussion at the CLC about how
to create vibrancy. The dead area was consistently Federal Street and this proposal wouldn’t create that
vibrancy. Ms. Newhall-Smith noted that the housing is added first and the commercial space comes after,
similar to Rantoul Street in Beverly. Mr. Rubin mention adding more restaurants on Washington and
how to get people at the Common to come this way for something other than the MBTA. If housing is
the City’s focus then this application does it. Chair Napolitano stated that the applicant’s goals say to
maintain some public access and they will explore it. The SRA agreed to interview the applicant.
Winn Development:
Mr. Rubin stated that is team is qualified based on experience. They had a broad conceptional plan with a
99-year lease. Mr. Daniel noted that the tax-exempt bond financing is a public sector that backs it so the
bonds are exempt from being taxed. City would do the bond for part of the project. Ms. Newhall-Smith
questioned if that would be too helpful to the developer. The SRA agreed to interview the applicant.
Interview Guidelines:
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The Board discussed various interview configuration and agreed to; interview 4 applicants the first night,
2 applicants the second night, both sessions shall begin at 5PM with an Executive Session debrief at the
end of each night. All team members can be present, not just the developer, the sessions will be open to
the public but with no public comment, and people affiliated with any other applicant are not be allowed
to be present for any other interviews.
Interview Questions Discussion:
Mr. Daniel suggested eliminating some questions. Mr. Rubin suggested they save some for the RFP
process. The SRA agreed to eliminate and combine some of the proposed questions, and which questions
to ask in person at the interviews.
Mr. Barrett suggested that 40 minutes is not enough time to conduct an interview. Chair Napolitano
suggested 30 minutes so developers can get to the point of the answers to their questions. Rubin stated
that applicants submitting their answers in writing allows the SRA to see their responses in case they
don’t have the time during the interview. Mr. Daniel suggested that tell the applicants to limit their
presentations so that all the questions asked of them can be addressed. Mr. Rubin suggested a 10-minute
verbal presentation and 30-minute Q&A by the Board.
Chair Napolitano requested blank sheets to see if all questions get addressed and same for the debrief
session. Mr. Daniel noted that the firm names will be released publicly when the agenda is posted. Ms.
Newhall-Smith noted that HSI has asked for a list of who responded. Mr. Daniel replied that HSI can be
told who submitted only because those not being interviewed need to be notified. Ms. Newhall-Smith
will draft a letter to be e-mailed to those developers.
Mr. Daniel stated that Matt Zahler will be under contract and the SRA received $40,000 from the CPA for
Mr. Zahler’s services, for a survey of the buildings, etc. He added that he spoke with DCAMM and the
SRA can’t issue the RFP until the SRA takes ownership of the property. There are still internal conflicts
with the legislation and it should be resolved soon.
Roll call to adjourn the Executive Session at 8:25PM.
Chair Napolitano, Gary Barrett, Dave Guarino, Dean Rubin. Passes: 4-0.
Chair states that the Open Session will not reconvene at the conclusion of the Executive Session.
Adjournment
Guarino: Motion to adjourn the meeting.
Seconded by: Rubin. Passes 4-0.
Meeting is adjourned at 8:30PM.
Know your rights under the Open Meeting Law M.G.L. c. 30A §18-25 and City
Ordinance Sections 2-028 through 2-2033.