131 DERBY STREET - BUILDING JACKET 2
LITCHFIELD WRITER'S ADDRESS:
6 Kimball Lane,Suite 200
Lynnfiy CAVO>� e ,MA01940
(781)
(761)3099.1500
Attorneys at Law (761)246.0167 Fax
email:jarosak@litchfieldcavo.com
August 20, 2009
Jerald A. Parisella, Esquire
Assistant City Solicitor
One School Street
Beverly, MA 01915
RE: Charlotte Fitzpatrick as Trustee of the Renaissance Condominium at 131 Derby
Street Trust v. H.H. Morant & Co., et al
Essex Superior Court
C.A. No. 7-2457
LC File No.: 2714-9
Dear Attorney Parisella:
As per our discussion at the recent deposition of Mr. St. Pierre, enclosed please find the
transcript of his deposition which he gave at my office on July 30, 2009. I have also included the errata
sheet with the transcript of the deposition.
Please have Mr. St. Pierre review the transcript to ensure its accuracy. If he has any changes to
make, please have him do so on the errata sheet noting the page, line and nature of the correction. Once
he has completed the errata sheet, please have him date and sign it and then return the errata sheet to me.
Mr. St. Pierre may keep a copy of his deposition transcript if he wishes.
In addition, you will recall that a number of documents/items were identified that Mr. St. Pierre
would make a further search for and produce to us. Based on my review of the transcript, requests are
made for the following documents/items:
1. Any and all photographs/disks of photographs in the possession, custody or control of the
Building Department;
2. Index cards referencing inspections of 131 Derby Street;
3. Printouts of the electronic notes/files of inspections at 131 Derby Street;
4. True and accurate copies of all Permit Cards;
5. Any and all applications submitted to the Building Department for 131 Derby Street;
6. Any and all certificates of occupancy issued for 131 Derby Street;
7. Any and all records pertaining to inspections performed by the electrical inspector for the
City of Salem pertaining to 131 Derby Street;
8. Any and all records pertaining to any inspections performed by the plumbing/gas
inspector of the City of Salem;
9. Any and all letters prepared by or received by the Building Department pertaining in any
way to 131 Derby Street.
Chicago e Hartford . Boston . New York .New Jersey . Tampa . Fort Lauderdale . Milwaukee . Los Angeles
www.litchfieidcavo.com
LITCHFIELD
Attorneys at Law CAVO UP
Martin Cole, Claims Manager
August 20, 2009
Page 2
1 would appreciate it if the documents/items could be provided tome as quickly as possible.
Thank you for your attention to these matters. Please contact me with any questions or
comments.
V truly yours,
J J. Jaro ak
JJJ\kmd
Enclosures
Thomas J. St . Pierre July 30, 2009
132
1 DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
2 RE : Esquire Deposition Solutions
File No . 33878
3 Case Caption: Charlotte Fitzpatrick
vs . Lewis Legon, et al .
4
Deponent : Thomas J. St . Pierre
5 Deposition Date : July 30, 2009
6 To the Reporter :
I have read the entire transcript of my deposition taken
7 in the captioned matter or the same has been read to me .
I request that the following changes be entered upon the
8 record for the reasons indicated. I have signed my name
to the Errata Sheet and the appropriate Certificate and
9 authorize you to attach both to the original transcript .
10 Page No . _ Line No . Change to :
11
12 Reason for change :
13 Page No . _ Line No . Change to :
14
15 Reason for change :
16 Page No . _ Line No . Change to :
17
18 Reason for change :
19 Page No. _ Line No . Change to :
20
21 Reason for change :
22 Page No . _ Line No . Change to :
23
24 Reason for change :
Toll Free: 866.619.3925
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Thomas J. St . Pierre July 30 , 2009
133
( � 1 Deposition of Thomas J. St . Pierre
2
3 Page No . _ Line No. Change to :
4
5 Reason for change :
6 Page No . _ Line No . Change to :
7
8 Reason for change :
9 Page No . _ Line No . Change to :
10
11 Reason for change :
12 Page No . _ Line No . Change to :
13
(^ 1
14 Reason for change :
15 Page No . _ Line No . Change to :
16
17 Reason for change :
18 Page No . Line No. Change to :
19
20 Reason for change :
21
Signed under the pains and penalties of perjury this
22 day of 2009.
23 SIGNATURE : DATE :
24 Thomas J. St . Pierre
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Thomas J. St . Pierre July 30, 2009
1 3
HU
ESSEX. SS, COIN90NNEALTH OF MASSSU ERRITM
OOR COURT 1 APPEARANCES:
CHARLOTTE FITZPATRICK AS TRUSTEE OF
Z
THE RENAISSANCE CONDOMINIUM AT 131
DERBY STREET TRUST.
Plaintiff, 3 ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF:
crvlL AcxxoN No: Escv2007-2457
LEWIS LEGON, e[ al., 4 JAMES P. O'SHEA, ESQ.
-------------Defer,danea-
, 5 Moris & O'Shea, LLC
----------
ComPlefe Ease Caption 6 50 Milk Street, 20th Floor
Nex[ Page
------------------------------ 7 Boston, Massachusetts 02109
DEPOSITION OF
THOMAS S. Sr. PIERRE B 617.357.9800
July 30, 2009 9 jpoattyQmsn.com
2:12 P.M. 10
Litchfield u LLP 1 ON BEHALF OF LEWIS LEGON:
6 al
Kimbl Lane,, Suite 200
Llmnfield, Massachusetts 01940 2 LOUIS J. MUGGED, ESQ.
Ayako Odanaka, CRR, RPR, CSR No. 147909 I. 3 Louis J. Muggeo &Associates
IL4 133 Washington Street
s Salem, Massachusetts 01970
6 978.741.1177
8 ON BEHALF OF H.H. MORANT& CO.:
9 JOHN J. JAROSAK, ESQ.
0 Litchfield Cavo LLP
1 6 Kimball Lane, Suite 200
2 Lynnfield, Massachusetts 01940
3 781.309.1500
4 iarosakQlitchfieldcavo.com
2 4
1 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS I - APPEARANCES:
2 ESSEX,SS. SUPERIOR COURT 2
3 CHARLOTTE FITZPATRICK AS TRUSTEE OF THE 3 ON BEHALF OF COLDWELL BANKER RESIDENTIAL BROKERAGE,INC.:
4 RENAISSANCE CONDOMINIUM AT 131 DERBY 4 JENNIFER B.HARDY,ESQ.
5 STREET TRUST, s Melick,Porter&Shea,LLP
6 Plaintiff, 6 28 State Street
7 vs. CIVIL ACTION NO: ESCV2007-2457 7 Boston,Massachusetts 02109
6 LEWIS LEGON,INDIVIDUALLY,AND AS TRUSTEE a 617.523.6200
9 OF THE RENAISSANCE CONDOMINIUM AT 131 DERBY 9 (hardy@melicWaw.com
10 STREET TRUST,AND AS MANAGER OF RENAISSANCE 10
11 REAL ESTATE INVESTMENTS,LLC,RENAISSANCE 11 ON BEHALF OF MARK R.JOLY:
12 REAL ESTATE INVESTMENTS,LLC,H.H.MORANT& 12 PETER S.WHITE,ESQ.
13 CO., COLDWELL BANKER RESIDENTIAL BROKERAGE, 13 491 Maple Street,Suite 306
14 INC. (A.K.A.COLDWELL BANKER RESIDENTIAL 14 Danvers,Massachusetts 01923
15 REAL ESTATE,LLC)AND MARK R.JOLY, 15 978.777.7880
16 Defendants. 16 pwhite®peterbwhite=rrt
17 17
18 H.H.MORANT&CO. lE ON BEHALF OF O'KEEFE BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION,INC.:
19 Defendant/Third Party Plaintiff, 19 SUSAN OFTRING,ESQ.
20 VS. - 20 Dreyer&Associates
21 O'KEEFE BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION,INC., 21 276 Midstate Drive
22 Third Party Defendant. - 22 Aubum,Massachusetts 01501
23 _______________ 23 508.407.6318
24 24 softring®msagmup.com
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Thomas J. St . Pierre July 30 , 2009
5 7
1 APPEARANCES: 1 INDEX TO EXHIBITS
2 2 NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE NO.
3 ON BEHALF OF THE DEPONENT: 3 7 Folder Containing H. H.Morant Report 29
4 JERALD A. PARISELLA, ESQ. 4 and Other Correspondence
5 Assistant City Solicitor 5 7A Document dated 11/11/05 122
6 One School Street 6 8 Folder Containing Correspondence from 30
7 Beverly, Massachusetts 01915 7 Thomas J. St. Pierre to Renaissance
8 978.921.1990 a Condominium Trust
9 jap@alexanderfemino.net 9 8A Letter dated 7/28/06 92
0 10 9 Letter dated 7/17/06 110
1 11 10 Document dated 1/15/06 114
2 12 11A Letter dated 8/11/06 117
3 13 11B Letter dated 8/17/06 118
[1 14
S 15 (Attorney Jarosak retained original exhibits)
6 16
7 17
8 18
9 19
0 20
1 21
2 22
3 23
4 24
6 8
1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION 1 (Exhibit-1,Subpoena,premarked for
2 DEPOSITION OF: THOMAS J.ST. PIERRE 2 identification).
3 EXAMINATION PAGE NO. 3
4 By Mr.Jarosak 9 4 MR.JAROSAK: Counsel have agreed that the
5 By Mr.Muggeo 85 5 usual stipulations will apply to the deposition. All
6 By Mr.White 103 6 objections,except as to the form of the question,will be
7 By Ms.Oftring 107 7 reserved until the time of trial;motions to strike will
8 By Ms. Hardy 118 8 be reserved until the time of trial.
9 By Mr.O'Shea 122 9 Do you want the witness,Jerry,to read and sign
10 10 the deposition transcript?
11 INDEX TO EXHIBITS 11 MR. PARISELLA: Yes.
12 NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE NO. 12 MR.JAROSAK: All right. Why don't we waive
13 1 Subpoena 8 13 the notarization requirement,have him sign under the
14 2 Gas and Plumbing Permits 24 14 pains and penalties of perjury? Thirty days sufficient,
15 3 Building Permits 24 1s do you think?
16 3A Demolition Permit 31 16 MR. PARISELLA: Yeah.
17 3B Permit Number 62205 33 17 Thirty days?
18 4 Folder Containing Aberjona Engineering 25 16 THE DEPONENT: Sure,yeah.
19 Field Report 19 MR.JAROSAK: All right.
20 5 Folder Containing Jansen Report and 26 20 He's given you his ID? So you're all set. Why
21 Other Correspondence 21 don't you swear him in?
22 5A Letter dated 8/9/06 98 22
23 6 Street Folder 28 - 23
24 124
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Thomas J. St . Pierre July 30 , 2009
9 11
1 THOMAS J.ST. PIERRE,the deponent,having been 1 Okay. Have you ever given a deposition before?
2 satisfactorily identified and duly sworn by the Notary 2 A. I have.
3 Public,was examined and testified as follows: 3 0. Okay. Let me show you a document,
4 4 Mr. St.Pierre,which we've taken the liberty of marking
5 EXAMINATION 5 for identification as Exhibit 1 to your deposition. And
6 BY-MR.JAROSAK: 6 it is a deposition subpoena with a Schedule A and a return
7 0. Okay. Could you please state your full name for 7 of service. And I'll ask you to take a look at that,sir,
e the record? a and ask you if that document or a copy of that is what
9 A. Thomas J.St.Pierre. 9 requested you to be here today.
10 Q. Okay. And,Mr.St.Pierre,as I've already told 10 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yes,it is.
11 you,my name is John Jarosak. I represent one of the 11 Q. Okay. And did you have an opportunity,
12 defendants in this case,H. H.Morant. 1,along with 12 Mr.St. Pierre,before coming today,to review that
13 perhaps some of the other attorneys here today,will be 13 document?
14 asking you questions about building that has gone on at a 14 A. Yes,I did.
15 location on Derby Street in Salem,Massachusetts. 15 Q. All right. And you'll note on the Schedule A
16 Please let me know,sir,if you donot understand 16 that the subpoena required you to bring with you any and
17 one of my questions. If you tell me that you don't 17 all documents in the witness'possession,custody or
18 understand one of my questions,I'll try and rephrase it 18 control pertaining in any way to property located at 131
19 so that you can understand it,fair? 19 Derby Street,Salem,Massachusetts,and 131 Derby Street
20 A. Yeah,yes. 20 Rear,Salem,Massachusetts, Did I read that correctly?
21 Q. Please give me a verbal answer to all my 21 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yes.
22 questions,just like to all the questions from other 22 Q. All right. And in response to that deposition
23 counsel,so that the court reporter can take everything 23 subpoena,Mr.St.Pierre,have you brought any documents
24 down accurately,and I certainly will remind you if you do 24 with you?
10 12
1 not do that. - 1 A. I have. I brought four folders.
2 I'm hoping we're not going to be overly long here 2 0. Okay. Where were these folders located?
3 this afternoon,but if,for any reason,you want to take a 3 A. These were located in the building department
4 break,just let us know,and we'll stop for a few 4 offices.
5 moments. The only rule there,Mr.St.Pierre,is don't 5 0. Okay. Who made the search for these documents?
6 ask for a break if there's a question out there waiting 6 A. I did.
7 for an answer;in other words,complete the answer to the 7 Q. Did anyone assist you in the search?
8 question and then request your break. Do you understand 6 A. No.
9 that? 9 0. Is there some type of filing system or index
10 A. Yes. 10 system at the City of Salem that allowed you to locate
11 Q. Okay. Try your best to let me finish my 11 those documents?
12 questions before you jump in with your answer. I'm sure 12 A. Yes,there is.
13 you would like to get this done as quickly as possible, 13 Q. And what type of procedure do you have for that?
14 and there will be that burning desire to get out the 14 A. The--They're filed by street address.
1s .answer,sometimes even before the question is done. 1s Q. And when you went to thestreet address for 131
16 Please do not do that because it makes the court 16 Derby Street,did you locate the four folders that you
17 reporter's job difficult. Plus,it requires me,then,to 17 referenced?
18 restart the question all over again,and then we take 18 A. I did.
19 actually longer than we otherwise would have. So please 19 Q. Were there any documents for that address that
20 let me finish my question,and I'll do my best to let you 20 you found that you did not bring for any reason?
21 finish your answer before we go on to the next question. 21 A. As you pointed out,there probably are some
22 Do you have any questions,sir-- 22 photographs that I did not think to grab.
23 A. I do not. 23 Q. Okay. Are photographs at the City of Salem filed
24 Q. --about the procedure? 24 away in a different location than the actual building
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13 15
1 department paper records? 1 City of Salem?
2 A. Generally,they're filed in the street folder. 2 A. I am the building commissioner and zoning officer
3 For some reason,these may not have been filed yet or they 3 for the City of Salem.
4 may be in the form of a disk. 4 Q. Okay. How long have you held those titles?
s 0. Okay. And if they are in the form of a disk, 5 A. In that capacity,five years.
6 where would that disk typically be located? 6 Q. Is that an appointed position?
7 A. That would be located in my office. 7 A. It is.
e 0. Is it the usual practice for the building a 0. Can you briefly describe for us what your duties
9 department to have disks of photographs on all properties 9 are in that position?
10 where there are records or just under particular 10 A. As a building commissioner, I'm the department
11 circumstances? 11 head for the building department. We are in charge of
12 A. Just under particular circumstances. 12 zoning,redoing permits for zoning,making sure they
13 Q. Do you know what the circumstances were or are as 13 comply with the Mass. State building code,making sure
14 to why there is a disk of photographs from 131 Derby 14 inspections take place and so on.
1s Street and 131 Rear? 15 Q. Okay. And do the duties as zoning commissioner
16 . A. At the time I had an assistant building 16 and building department commissioner ovehap?
17 inspector,Joseph Barbeau,who was handy with the camera, 17 A. They do.
1e and when we had a few incidents at this property,or a few 18 0. Prior to holding those two positions,
19 problems,I had asked him to take some photographs. 19 Mr.St. Pierre,what position did you hold,if any,with
20 0. Okay. And is Mr.Barbeau's name spelled 20 the city?
21 B-a-r-b-a-a-u? 21 A. I was assistant building inspector for seven
22 A. It is. 22 years.
23 Q. Okay. And is he the assistant building 23 Q. Okay. Any other positions with the city prior to
24 inspector? 24 that?
14 16
1 A. No longer. 1 A. No.
2 0. Okay.. During what periods of time was 2 Q. Before you came on with the City of Salem
3 Mr.Barbeau with the building department? 3 Building Department in any capacity,how were you
4 A. He left about a year ago. And he had been 4 employed?
5 employed for approximately three years prior to that. 5 A. The last job I had, I believe I was
6 Q. Okay. Other than the disk which we've now talked 6 self-employed. I've been a facilities manager in and out
7 about,which contains photographs,do you believe all 7 of different construction projects over the years,either
8 other records in the possession of the building department 8 self-employed or working for somebody.
9 have been brought with you today? 9 Q. Since you've been with the City of Salem,have
10 A. Yes. 10 you received any type of continuing education on building
11 Q. To prepare for your testimony today, 11 code or any other codes or regulations that apply to your
12 Mr.St. Pierre,did you review any documents,whether they 12 business?
13 were your own documents or any others? 13 A. Yes,I have. The State of Massachusetts requires
14 A. I did not. 14 a continuing education. You need to be certified
15 Q. Other than your counsel,who is with you here 15 nationally as a building inspector or building
16 today,did you speak with anyone to prepare for your 16 commissioner,building commissioner being the higher
17 deposition? 17 level,and you're required to continue your education and
18 A. I did not. 1s acquire certain amount of credits in every three-year
19 0. What is your current residential address,sir? 19 cycle to keep up your accreditation.
20 A. My current residential is 68 Pierpont Street in 20 0. Okay. And that was my next question. Over what
21 Peabody,Mass. 21 period of time are you required to fulfill a certain
22 0. Is that P-i-e-r-p-o-n-t? 22 obligation with continuing education?
23 A. Yes. 23 A. The state require--has a three-year cycle.
24 0. Okay. What is your current position with the 24 0. How many credit hours,if that's the--the
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17 19
1 category of continuing education, how many credit hours do 1 A. No.
2 you have to take over that three-year period? 2 O. You don't or they weren't?
3 A. Forty-five. 3 A. No citations were issued.
4 O. So it averages out to about 15 or so a year? 4 O. Okay. Was some type of commercial enterprise
s A. Yes. 5 instructed to cease doing business,though,as a result of
6 O. Have you,yourself,sir,ever been to--Well, 6 your visit?
7 let me--let me strike that and start over. 7 A. I don't re--recall.
e What is your understanding,Mr.St.Pierre,as to s O. When was the next time that you would have been
9 the number of buildings that are at the address that we're 9 at the brick building at 131 Derby Street?
10 talking about? 10 A. I believe I looked at a footing during the
11 A. My belief is two buildings there. 11 renovations or the beginning of the renovations of the
12 O. And is one of them,for lack of a better phrase, 12 building. I think I did a footing inspection in the
13 of brick construction and the other of wood construction? 13 garage area.
14 A. Yes. 14 O. Now,when you say"the beginning of the
1s O. Let me focus my questions,if I could,at least 15 renovations,"what renovations are you talking about,
16 initially,on the brick construction building,and we'll 16 Mr.St.Pierre?
17 ask you some questions about that building going forward. 17 A. The renovations to the--what we refer to as the
1e Have you,yourself,sir,ever seen the 18 rear building, 131 Rear.
19 brick-constructed building at 131 Derby Street? 19 O. And the rear building is the brick building?
20 A. I have. 20 A. The brick building, right. And its conversion
21 O. On how many occasions have you been to that 21 from a garage to a residence.
22 property? 22 O. Okay. And at the time that you went to do the
23 A. Four or five. 23 inspection of the footings,who was the owner of that
24 O. Can you tell us when you were first at the 24 building?
18 20
1 property,either in your capacity with the building 1 A. Developer. I can't think of his name. If you
2 department or for any other reason? 2 said his name I would--
3 A. I was first at that property probably 10 years 3 C. If I were to suggest--
4 ago on a complaint. At the time it was being used for a 4 A. --able to verity—
5 garage. 5 O. —the name Lewis Legion,does that ring a bell?
6 O. Did that have more to do with a zoning issue as 6 A. Yes,it does.
7 opposed to a construction issue? 7 O. So you believe that when the renovation project
8 A. It did. 8 which was begun when Mr.Legion owned the building,when
9 O. Do you recall who the owner of the building was 9 that was beginning,you were there to inspect the footings
10 at that time? 10 for the garage?
11 A. -I do not. 11 A. Yes,sir,I was.
12 O. If I were to mention the name LeBeouf,does that 12 O. Okay. Was that part of your usual duty as
13 help you? 13 building commissioner?
14 A. It doesn't. 14 A. Yes,it is.
15 O. Okay. Fair enough. 15 O. That visit which would have been your second
16 When you were there on that occasion to respond 16 visit in total to the property,that would have been more
17 to the complaint about the building being used as a • 17 in the building capacity as opposed to a zoning capacity?
is garage,what was the outcome of that complaint? 18 A. That's correct.
19 A. I really don't recall. 19 O. Did you inspect or look at any other portion of
20 O. Did you make any observations of the structure of 20 the building at that time, other than the garage area?
21 the building itself during that visit as opposed to just 21 A. I did not.
22 looking at what the building was being used for? 22 C. What was the result of your inspection at that
23 A. I did not. 23 time?
24 O. Do you know if any citations were issued? 24 A. The footing was approved,the preparation for the
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21 23
1 footing was approved,and they were allowed to place 1 and pull out individual index cards if needed.
2 concrete. 2 0. So there may be additional documents pertaining
3 0. Where? 3 to the property that would be in the form of card files?
4 A. In the garage area. 4 A. Yes,sir.
5 Q. Some type of stab or foundation? 5 0. Would these just be a series of index cards?
6 A. This was a-.-If you want me to elaborate, it was 6 A. Yes.
7 preparation for a substantial steel beam that was being 7 Q. Okay. In some type of drawer,like you see in a
e put in. a library?
9 Q. So were columns or piers being put in above the 9 A. Yes.
10 footings? 10 0. Would they--Would these cards be used to refer
11 A. Yes,yes. 11 to some other paper documents or would those cards
12 Q. How was it that you knew to come and take a look 12 essentially be the record?
13 at the footings at that time? 13 A. That would be the record.
14 A. As required by the building code,the builder 14 C. Okay. Did you make any search before coming in
15 called us for a footing inspection. 15 today of the index cards to see if there were any for the
16 Q. Who was the builder? 16 Derby Street address?
17 A. I don't recall his name. 17 A. I did not.
18 0. Prior to that work being done,in other words, 1s 0. Okay. Do you believe, based on the age of the
19 your visit to inspect the footings,was a permit pulled 19 building or any other factor,that there would be index
20 for the renovation work? 20 cards applicable to the building?
21 A. My recollection is that we started with a 21 A. Probably. Probably likely we'll find something,
22 demolition-only permit,which is fairly typical for an 22 yeah.
23 older building. 23 Q. Okay. Okay. Well,let me try another question.
24 Q. Okay. - 24 Permits that you've brought with you today,
22 24
a MR.JAROSAK: Let's just go off the record 1 Mr.St.Pierre,would those comprise all of the building
2 for a second. 2 permits in the City of Salem's records from the year 2000
3 (Discussion off the record). 3 to the present?
4 BY MR.JAROSAK: 4 A. Yes.
5 G. Okay. Back on the record. s Q. Okay. Now,you've separated off some of the
6 Mr.St.Pierre,we've put back in front of you 6 permits,looks like three pieces of paper. And what are
7 the documents that you were kind enough to bring with you 7 --Or strike that. There's quite a bit more. Why were
e today,and on the top of your pile of documents,there are 8 those segregated from the building permits that are on top
9 a series of what appear to be building permits that you've 9 of the folder?
10 brought with you,correct? 10 A. (Deponent viewing documents). These are gas and
11 A. (Deponent viewing documents). Correct. 11 plumbing permits.
12 0. Are all of those permits for 131 Rear or are they 12 Q. Why don't we keep the gas and plumbing permits
13 for both buildings? 13 clipped together?
14 A. (Deponent viewing documents). I would say 14 MR.JAROSAK: And what we're going to do in a
15 they're for both buildings. 1s few minutes is mark those as Exhibit 2 so that we know
16 0. Okay. And the permits that you've printed off 16 that those have been brought. And there are six of those.
17 for us,do those comprise all of the building permits in 17 THE DEPONENT: Yes,sir.
18 the city's records pertaining to both 131 and 131 Rear 18 MR,JAROSAK: We'll mark those as Exhibit 2.
19 Derby Street? 19 And then the other permits which are building
20 A. These would pertain to all the building permits 20 permits,which are seven in number,we'll mark as Exhibit
21 from the year 2000 forward. 21 3.
22 Q. Okay. And is there some reason we can't go 22 (Exhibit-2,Gas and Plumbing Permits;
23 earlier than that? 23 Exhibit-3,Building Permits,marked for identification).
24 A. It's just a card file. If needed,we can go back 24 MR.JAROSAK: Thank you.
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25 27
1 BY MR.JAROSAK: 1 documents would wind up in one folder. They've just been
0. Now,the next folder that you have there, 2 separated out because they've been out numerous times.
3 Mr.St.Pierre,what is that? 3 Q. What would be generally contained within the
4 A. (Deponent viewing document), This is a folder 4 street folder,as you refer to it?
5 containing looks like a field report done by Aberjona s A. (Deponent viewing documents). After we have
6 Engineering. 6 finished with the project,basically everything from the
7 0. Okay. And is that all that's contained within 7 zoning,certificate of occupancy,this is the--copy of
8 that folder? a the decision from the ZBA dated January of'05. This is
9 A. Yes,it is. 9 where Mr.Legon received some zoning relief.
10 0. Okay. 10 Q. And that confirmed the variance was granted?
11 MR.JAROSAK: And we'll mark the folder with 11 A. Correct.
12 the field report from Aberjona,A-b-e-r-j-o-n-a, 12 (Deponent viewing documents). There's some old
13 Engineering,a four-page document,as Exhibit 4. And 13 correspondences from the city back in'77. There's a
14 we'll just place the sticker on the folder itself. 14 couple of health complaints in here.
1s (Exhibit-4,Folder Containing Aberjona 15 Q. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Was it'77 or'97?
16 Engineering Field Report,marked for identification). 16 A. '77.
17 BY MR.JAROSAK: 17 Q. Okay.
18 0. And what is the next folder you have there, 18 A. This was basically any correspondence between the
19 Mr. St.Pierre? 19 city and the property owner that we were copied on. If it
20 A. (Deponent viewing documents). Next--next 20 came from the health department or any other department,
21 folder contains some correspondences from O'Keefe Brothers 21 we would file it under the street folder.
22 Construction,some quotations and some contract 22 (Deponent viewing documents). There's some
23 information with them. There's a investigation report 23 certificates of inspection which have to pertain to the
24 done by Don Jansen,two pages. 24 fact that it was a rental property out front and that it
26 28
1 0. And what's the date on the Jansen report,sir? 1 was inspected from time to time. Some documents from the
2 A. (Deponent viewing document). 2 historical commission about appropriateness for
3 0. If you can discern that. 3, renovations. Board of health correspondence and other
4 A. (Deponent viewing document). The fax date on the 4 historical document. That's it.
5 top is April 10th of'06. s MR.JAROSAK: And we'll mark that folder,
6 Q. Report itself is undated? 6 which you refer to as the street folder,as Exhibit Number
7 A. (Deponent viewing document). Appears to be. 7 6.
6 Q. Okay. And then is there also a correspondence a (Exhibit-6,Street Folder,marked for
9 from the City of Salem in that folder? 9 identification).
10 A. (Deponent viewing document). There's a 10 BY MR.JAROSAK:
11 correspondence to H. H.Morant architects regarding 131 11 0. What's the next folder,Mr.St.Pierre?
12 Derby Street. 12 A. (Deponent viewing documents). Next folder--
13 Q. And that has to do with a zoning issue? 13 seeing what it generally has in it--starts off with a
14 A. Yes. 14 report from H.H.Motant&Company.
1s MR.JAROSAK: Why don't we put that back in 15 0. What's the date on that,sir?
16 that folder,and we'll mark that folder that we were just 16 A. (Deponent viewing document). Date on that is
17 talking about as Exhibit 5. 17 November 11th of'05,and it's in reference to the
1e (Exhibit-5, Folder Containing Jansen Report 18 building in the rear,brick building.
19 and Other Correspondence, marked for identification). 19 Q. Okay. What else is in that folder,sir?
20 BY MR.JAROSAK: 20 A. (Deponent viewing tlocuments). A fax
21 Q. And what's the next folder that you brought with 21 transmission. Behind the fax transmission is what--
22 you? 22 Apparently we asked for some information pertaining to a
23 A. (Deponent viewing documents). The next folder is 23 product they were using,and it was faxed to us.
24 the actual street folder where eventually all these 24 (Deponent viewing document). The next document
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1 is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts,Department of Public 1 A. Correct.
2 Safety,State Building Code Appeals Board. Apparently 2 Q. The permit that was pulled for the demolition,as
3 Lewis Legon applied for a variance from some item from the 3 you referred to it earlier,is that in one of these
4 building code and was--appears to be granted. And 4 folders?
5 that's it. s A. It should be in the--
6 Q. Okay. And does that folder have a name or is 6 Q. Or is it in Exhibit 2 or 3?
7 that just a folder that you brought with you? 7 A. Exhibit 3.
s A. Just in the process,yeah. e Q. Three. If you could just pull that out.
9 MR.JAROSAK: We'll mark that folder that 9 A. (Deponent complying). Believe it should be that
10 you've just described for us as Exhibit Number 7. 10 one(indicating).
11 (Exhibit-7,Folder Containing H.H.Morant 11 Q. We'll mark this permit as Exhibit 3A just so we
12 Report and Other Correspondence,marked for 12 can keep It in that group. And this will be the document
13 identification). 17 which is entitled Building Permit,but that pertains to
14 BY MR.JAROSAK: 14 the renovation work?
1s Q. Okay. Go ahead,sir. The next folder is? 15 A. (Deponent viewing document). That building
16 A. (Deponent viewing document). The last folder 16 permit is for interior demolition only.
17 contains a correspondence from myself to the Renaissance 17 Q. Okay.
1s Condominium Trust, 131 Derby Street. This is a 18 A. And a building permit is required for
19 correspondence,basically,that myself and Joe Barbeau 19 demolition.
20 inspected the building to take a look at the conditions 20 Q. Fair enough.
21 that were outlined by the engineer's report of July 17th, 21 MR.JAROSAK: Let me just have that marked,
22 106. 22 and then I'll circulate it around. This will be Exhibit
23 Q. And was that the Abortion report that you 23 3A.
24 referenced earlier? 24 (Exhibit-3A, Demolition Permit, marked for
30 32
1 A. Correct. That's all that's in that folder. 1 identification).
2 Q. All night. 2 BY MR.JAROSAK:
3 MR.JAROSAK: We'll mark that last folder as 3 Q. Okay. Feel free to take a look at Exhibit 3,
4 Exhibit S. 4 Mr.St. Pierre,but my next question for you is,was there
s (Exhibit-8,Folder Containing Correspondence 5 ever any additional permit of any kind issued by the City
6 from Thomas J.St. Pierre to Renaissance Condominium 6 of Salem for the renovation of the brick building at 131
7 Trust,marked for identification). 7 Derby Street?
8 BY MR.JAROSAK: a A. (Deponent viewing document). I believe it's
9 Q. Now,Mr.St.Pierre,just to make sure that we've 9 Permit Number 62205.
10 got everything that exists or know what else may exist, 10 Q. And which one is that?
11 the documents that are now marked as Exhibits 2 through 8, 11 A. (Deponent producing document).
12 which are the documents which you've brought with you 12 Q. We're going to mark that as Exhibit 3B in a
13 today,the disk of photographs that we believe may exist 13 second. And this is for interior renovations?
14 at your department and the index cards pertaining to the 14 A. Yes.
15 property which would predate the year 2000;would there be 15 Q. Okay. And that puts an estimated cost of$50,000
16 any other documents held by the building department for 16 on the project?
17 the City of Salem that pertain in any way to this 17 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yes, it does.
1e property? 18 Q. Does that document identify who requested or
19 A. Not that I'm aware of. 19 pulled the permit?
20 O. Okay. Now,you mentioned earlier that you were 20 A. It should.
21 at the renovation for purposes of inspection--or 21 (Deponent viewing document). It identifies Lewis
22 inspecting,rather,the footings in the garage area at 22 Legon as the owner and the applicant as Paul Blaise.
23 some point during the beginning of the renovation, 23 Q. B-1-a-i-s-e?
24 correct? 24 A. (Deponent viewing document). Plaise,yeah,
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1 P-1-a-i-s-e. 1 these out of order. Permit Number 17-07 was a permit to
2 Q. Okay. 2 strip and reroot the rear of 131 Derby Street.
3 A. Which I believe may be a typo. 3 Q. And what's the date on that one,sir?
4 Q. Okay. You believe it should be spelled with a B 4 A. (Deponent viewing document). That one was issued
5 or a P? - 5 July 14th of'06.
6 A. I believe with a B. 6 Q. Again,that would be post renovation?
7 Q. B,so it should be B-1-a-i-s-e? 7 A. Correa.
e A. That's--I can make a note of that and check the s Q. Okay.
9 application. 9 A. Actually,if I can clarify.
10 Q. Okay. 10 Q. Please.
11 MR.JAROSAK: We'll just mark that as Exhibit 11 A. (Deponent viewing documents). The first permit
12 38 in a second. 12 we just talked about, 162-07,was for the structure and
13 THE DEPONENT: I'll verify that. 13 17-07 was the actual rubber,O'Keefe Brothers.
14 (Exhibit-3B, Permit Number 62205, marked for 14 Q. Any other building permits for the renovation of
15 identification). 1s 131 Rear Derby Street,other than what you've now told
16 BY MR.JAROSAK: 16 us?
17 Q. Now,other than Exhibit 3A, Mr.St. Pierre,and 17 A. (Deponent viewing document). This one pertains
13 3B,are there any other permits in the City of building-- 18 to the front building.
19 or the City of Salem Building Department records 19 Q. The wood building?
20 pertaining to this renovation project at the brick 20 A. Wood.building. .
21 building? 21 Q. Okay.
22 A. (Deponent viewing document). There are. 22 A. (Deponent viewing document). Permit Number
23 Q. What else do we have? 23 334-08 is the rear building doneafter--It was dated
24 A. (Deponent viewing document). I have Permit 24 September of'07--
34 36
1 Number 162-07,which is structured repair to roofs. 1 Q. Okay.
2 Q. And when is that dated,sir?_ 2 A. --work done after the issue.
3 A. (Deponent viewing document). That is issued on 3 Q. And what--what work was that,sir?
4 the 30th of August,2006. 4 A. (Deponent viewing document). That was stucco
5 Q. Okay. Do you understand that was for a repair of 5 work for a couple of walls.
6 the roof? 6 Q. All right. Any other building permits,then,for
7 A. (Deponent viewing document). That would be my-- 7 the property for the renovation,other than what you've
9 my understanding of that,yes,sir. 8 now told us?
9 Q. Do you understand that was part of the renovation 9 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yes,there is. The
10 or was that done after the renovation was completed? 10 earliest one I have on the--this report is 253-04,and
11 A. I don't recall. 11 what's not clear is whether it's the front or the rear
12 Q. Okay. If I were to represent to you that the 12 building.
13 owners of the two units in the brick building purchased- 13 Q. Okay. What is that for?
14 their units in early 2006;in other words,the individuals 14 A. (Deponent viewing document). Install fully
15 who purchased them from Mr. Legon-- 1s adhered rubber roof.
16 A. Yes. 16 Q. When was that permit issued?
17 Q. --or whatever entity actually owned the 17 A. (Deponent viewing document). September of'03.
18 building,would that indicate to you that this is for work 18 Q. So that would have predated the renovation?
19 that was done after the renovation had been completed? 19 A. Correct,
20 A. Yes,it does. 20 Q. And I do--You've already pointed out a question
21 Q. Do you have any other building permits for the 21 1 had about that document is,can you tell us whether this
22 site from the time the renovation started until it was 22 is for the wood building or the brick building?
23 completed in approximately the end of 2005? 23 A. I--I can't from the information on there.
24 A. (Deponent viewing documents). Actually,I have 24 Q. Okay. When there are two structures on a
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1 property such as we have here,would it be the usual 1 this building permit issued on September 18,2003,to
2 practice for the building department to identify which 2 install a newly--new fully adhered rubber roof was
3 building would be getting the permit? 3 inspected?
4 A. Yeah,it would be. 4 A. (Deponent viewing document). Not that I know of.
5 0. Do you know from your own knowledge, 5 0. Do you,on behalf of the City of Salem Building
6 Mr.St.Pierre,as to whether the wood building has a 6 Department,know if the work was even done?
7 rubber roof? 7 A. I do not.
a A. I do not. 8 0. Would there be any documentation anywhere that
9 0. In any event,the owner of the building at the 9 could tell us that?
10 time that the permit of September 18,2003,was issued was 10 A. It's possibly in the computer,under inspections,
11 a Mr.LeBeouf? 11 that it might have been electronically noted.
12 A. Correct. 12 0. What computer records are kept by the City of
13 Q. Is the usual practice,when a building permit is 13 Salem Building Department?
14 issued by the City of Salem,for there to be an inspection 14 A. The same program that generates these--these
15 when the work that is referenced in the permit is 15 permits.
16 completed? 16 Q. Okay. Is there some separate little icon on the
17 A. Generally,yes. 17 computer screen that you would click to find out the
18 0. Okay. And it that is done in the usual practice, 18 inspection history of a property?
19 are some notations made somewhere or some type of report 19 A. There is.
20 issued that an inspection has taken place? 20. 0. Was that done prior to today's deposition?
21 A. Usually the only record is the signature on the 21 A. It was not.
22 permit card,and if it's a major renovation,a certificate 22 0. Okay. Would you agree to undertake that
23 of occupancy would be processed afterwards. 23 exercise?
24 Q. Okay. So typically when a contractor takes out a 24 A. I would.
38 40
1 building permit from the City of Salem,he or she is to 1 0. And print out anything that is found for the
2 post it;is that correct? 2 property,and I can correspond with your counsel to find
3 A. That's correct. 3 out about that.
4 Q. And then when the work that is the subject of the 4 A. I would.
5 permit is completed,the contractor is supposed to contact 5 0. Is that--Well,strike that.
6 the building department so an inspection of that 6 And by the way;the building permit that we've
7 particular work is done? 7 been referring to from the September 18,2003,that
e A. There are steps along the construction process a already has the Exhibit 3 sticker on it,correct?
9 that they need to take,yes. 9 A. Correct.
10 Q. So in other words,if it's some type of phased 10 Q. And that was the first page of that group of
11 project,you know,that goes in steps,at completion 11 Exhibit 3?
12 of well-defined steps,the building department is to-- 12 A. Correct.
13 A. Correct. 13 Q. Okay. Why don't we keep that together so I don't
14 0. --conduct an inspection so that the next step 14 get confused? It doesn't take much.
1s can be done,correct? 15 Is there some procedure in place at the building
16 A. Correct. 16 department, Mr.St.Pierre,where inspections are just
17 0. Okay. And in a job such as that referenced in 17 noted on the computer somehow as opposed to actually
1e the building permit for the September 18,2003,reroofing, 1a physically writing references to inspections on the
19 whichever building it was on,would that typically require 19 permits themselves;in other words,have you gone away
20 stepped inspections or would it just be a--look at it at 20 from writing on pieces of paper and gone over to just
21 the end? 21 computerization?
22 A. Roofing permit would usually be just at the end. 22 A. No. The permit card is still required. We still
23 Q. Okay. Is there any record anywhere in the City 23 sign the permit cards. In a perfect world,they all get
24 of Salem that indicates that the roof work referenced in 24 signed. Some do,some don't. And then we strive to get
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1 them into the computer. And again,not always a hundred 1 form or in an electronic form for this property in your
2 percent, but we try to record what we do. 2 records?
3 Q. Sure. Just talking again about computers for a 3 A. cannot.
4 second,which I try not to as often as possible,are there 4 Q. The outfit that's referenced in the document that
5 any other computer programs or file folders at the 5 has the Exhibit 3 sticker on it,which is the September
6 building department that could possibly contain any 6 2003 reroofing job,the contractor is identified,is he or
7 references or records for 131 Derby Street,other than the 7 she not?
8 file about possible inspections? s A. (Deponent viewing document). It identifies the
9 A. No. 9 contractor as United Roofing, Mike Shea.
10 Q. Okay. So now we know entire universe of 10 Q. Okay. Do you know that--either of those
11 information that the city has on this property,correct? 11 names?
12 A. Correct. 12 A. I do.
13 Q. Okay. On any of the permits that you've been 13 Q. Okay. Do you know if Mr. Shea and/or United
14 kind enough to bring with you today,Mr.St.Pierre,is 14 Roofing are still in business?
1s there any evidence on any of them that the work that's 15 A. They are.
16 referenced in the permits was inspected? 16 Q. Do you know their current address?
17 A. These are copies of--of permits, not the actual 17 A. Just that they're in Salem.
18 permits. 18 Q. Okay. And just based on your day-to-day
19 O. Okay. The actual permits,as you've just 19 existence there at the city,do you still see that
20 referred to them,where would they be? 20 gentleman come in for permits and so forth?
21 A. I don't know. In a perfect world,the finished 21 A. I do. He's fairly regular.
22 building permit application would have been turned back 22 Q. Okay. Do you have any knowledge,and this is a
23 into our office prior to the issuance of a certificate of 23real reach,but do you have any knowledge as to his
24 occupancy,and I did not see those in the street folders. 24 recordkeeping procedures?
42 44
1 Q. Okay. So as far as the--the city is concerned, 1 A. I do not.
2 to provide counsel in this litigation with any documents 2 Q. Okay. Based on your experience with this roofer
3 that would evidence inspections by the city,you're not 3 that is referenced in the permit,United Roofing and
4 able to do that at all? 4 Mr. Shea,does he hold a good reputation in the City of
s A. I did not find the--the signed permit card as 5 Salem?
6 we wouldnormally find along with a certificate of 6 A. He does with my department.
7 occupancy or a copy of the certificate of occupancy. 7 Q. Okay. Are there some departments where he
8 Q. Did you bring with you any certificates of a doesn't hold an equally good reputation?
9 occupancy? 9 A. I don't want to speak for anyone else.
10 A. I did not find any. 10 Q. Okay. Would it be your expectation that,at some
11 Q. And if those existed, in the usual course,you 11 point, Mr.Shea would have turned in the building permit
12 would have expected to find them in the street file,as 12 to your department so that it could have been signed off
13 you refer to it? 13 on?
14 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yes. And I also 14 A. To be fair,a lot of roofers are probably the
15 would have expected to find them in this electronic file 15 last ones that are likely to turn in a card.
16 (indicating). 16 Q. Okay. Now,the building permits that pertain to
17 Q. Are they somehow scanned in after they're all 17 the renovation that you were able to locate, these would
18 written on? is be Exhibits 3A and 3B. And again,I'm not trying to be
19 A. (Deponent viewing document). The--Part of the 19 repetitive here,but do we have any information--strike
20 computer program generates the--the certificate of 20 that--do you have any information, Mr.St. Pierre,that
21 occupancy in the same format you see here(indicating), 21 any of the work referenced in these building permits was
22 and I do not have those. 22 ever inspected by the city?
23 O. Can you provide us with any explanation as to why 23 A. The--As you've mentioned earlier, I need to
24 there is no certificate of occupancy either in a written 24 access the inspections portion of this file to answer
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1 that. I know there were inspections done,yes. 1 Q. Okay. And then Exhibit 3B is the interior
2 Q. How do you know that? 2 renovation of 131 Rear Derby Street,correct?
3 A. I did some of them. 3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Okay. 4 Q. Okay. And that appears to have been issued
5 A. And I know that we had individuals down there. 5 around January of 2005;is that correct,sir?
6 Q. And who,besides yourself,do you know,from your 6 A. Correct.
7 own knowledge,Mr.St. Pierre,was involved in inspecting 7 Q. Okay. Now,as part of an interior renovation of
e the renovation work at 131 Derby,other than yourself? 8 131 Rear Derby Street,under the box entitled Building on
9 A. Joseph Barbeau. 9 the right-hand side of the permit,sir,which one of the
10 Q. Anyone else? 10 checklists of items would you expect to have inspections
11 A. From the building department? 11 for?
12 Q. Yes,sir. 12 A. As mentioned earlier,footings, rough frame,
13 A. No,that's it. 13 insulation and final.
14 Q. Okay. Were there-- 14 Q. Now,would the electrical inspector be someone
15 A. Well, I should--Let me check that. I do have 15 different from you?
16 the plumbinginspector under my umbrella,which would be 16 A. Yes.
17 Dennis Ross. 17 Q. Would they have their own documents?
18 Q. Okay. And your expectation would be that 18 A. Yes,they do.
19 somewhere in the computer,there's going to be some 19 Q. Okay. Who is currently the electrical inspector
20 reference to at least some of the inspections that were 20 for the city?
21 done? 21 A. John Giardi.
22 A. Yes. 22 Q. Can you spell that last name for us?
23 Q. What information is going to be on that computer 23 A. G-i-a-r-d-i.
24 program;in other words, is it just going to have a date 24 Q. Like the Yankee manager?
46 48
1 and who went and what they were looking for? 1 A. Yeah.
2 A. (Deponent viewing document). Exactly. As 2 Q. Are there any other departments in the City of
3 pointed out on the building section of this application 3 Salem that you would expect-would be involved in this
4 (indicating). 4 renovation project,other than your building department
5 Q. And you're referring,just so the record's clear, 5 and the electrical inspector?
6 to Exhibit 3A. 6 A. My plumbing inspector is also the gas inspector,
7 A. Correct. 7 so plumbing and gas would be in my department.
6 Q. Okay. 8 Q. Right.
9 A. There are certain milestones or certain points 9 A. Electric,we talked about.
10 where we--where we are supposed to inspect: excavation, 10 Q. Right.
11 footing,foundation,rough frame,so on,insulation, 11 A. DPW, unlikely to be involved in something like
12 final. There definitely were some inspection,and there 12 this unless it's new construction.
13 should be some record of some of that. 13 Q. Right.
14 Q. Okay. Now,the--Exhibit 3A is the permit that 14 A. Fire department was definitely involved. Fire
15 was pulled for the demolition work,correct? 15 inspection.
16 A. Correct. 16 Q. And is there some administrative office for the
17 O. And just,again,referring to the box that has 17 fire department in the city?
1a the title Building on the right-hand side of the 18 A. There is. A fire prevention office is on 29 Fort
19 application or the permit,as part of a demolition of a 19 Avenue.
20 building such as the brick building at 131 Derby Street, 20 Q. Ford like the car?
21 which items on this checklist under the title of Building 21 A. Fort.
22 would you expect there would be an inspection of? 22 Q. Oh, Fort,
23 A. Typically,just final,just when we're--look at 23 A. And I can give you a phone number if you'd like.
24 the end product. - 24 Q. Sure.
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1 A. (978)745-7777. 1 A. That l recall.
2 0. Any other City of Salem entities that would have 2 0. Just plywood on top of joists?
3 been involved in the renovation project,then,other than 3 A. I don't recall.
4 what you've-- 4 0. Okay. Wasn't poured concrete,though?
5 A. Health department would not have been and 5 A. Not that I recall.
6 assessors would not have been in this case. 6 Q. Okay. And then when you were on the second floor
7 0. Okay. So that's it,then;we would have the fire 7 of the residential part of the building and you looked up,
8 department,your department or departments within your s what did you See?
9 purview and the electrical inspector. 9 A. I believe I saw a wood roof,wood frames. In
10 A. Correct. 10 fact,I know it was a wood roof,yes.
11 0. Okay. When the demolition was complete--Strike 11 0. You actually saw all the way up to the roof or
12 that. 12 are you talking the ceiling?
13 Is it your testimony,then,Mr.St.Pierre,that 13 A. The wood beams that make up the root.
14 when the demolition was completed as per the permit we've 14 0. Ah,so you saw the roof joists?
is marked as Exhibit 3A,some inspection would have occurred? 15 A. Roof joists,yes.
16 A. Yes. 16 Q. Was there any type of strapping affixed to the
17 Q. What would you--What would have been involved 17 roof joists which would eventually be used to receive the
18 in that inspection? 18 Sheetrock roof--or a Sheetrock ceiling, rather?
19 A. I actually can speak to that inspection. I just 19 A. I don't recall.
20 simply looked at the--the empty walls in the building 20 0. But you do recall seeing the roof joists?
21 while I was looking at the footing,which was the 21 A. I do.
22 beginning of the construction process. - 22 Q. From where you were standing on the second floor
23 0. Okay. So that second visit which youpaid to the 23 of the building,Mr.St. Pierre,when you were conducting
24 property where you looked at the footings in the garage, 24 your inspection of the demolition work,could you estimate
50 52
1 at that time,you.also conducted the inspection of the 1 for us how high up the bottom of the roof joist would have
2 demolition? 2 been?
3 A. Yes. 3 A. I don'trecall exactly.
4 0. Did that involve you going up to both the first 4 Q. When you were on the second floor,standing
5 and second floors of the--what was going to be the 5 there,looking at the roof joists,were you able to touch
6 residence part of the building? 6 them if you extended your arm?
7 A. I did go up to the second floor,yes. 7 A. No. -
8 0. Okay. And when you went up to the second floor a 0. What devices did you use,sir,in order to
9 at that time,Mr.St.Pierre,what did you observe? 9 conduct your inspection of the roof joists? -
10 A. Just basically bare walls or wooden floor and 10 A. I did not inspect the roof joists in particular.
11 wood ceiling structure. 11 0. You did look at them,though?
12 0. The bare walls,were they of a cinder block or 12 A. Just a quick--quick observation.
13 concrete? 13 0. Okay. Did you use aflashlight at all during
14 A. As I recall,brick. 14 that inspection?
15 Q. Brick. Okay. So you had, in essence,four brick 15 A. No.
16 walls on the perimeter of the interior,correct? 16 Q. Did you walk around the entire second floor and
17 A. Yes. 17 observe the roof joists in various locations?
16 0. The floor that you were standing on,when you 18 A. No.
19 were conducting that inspection after the demolition,was 19 Q. Did you just observe them from one location on
20 composed of what? 20 the second floor?
21 A. Yes. 21 A. Yes.
22 0. What was it composed of, sir,the floor? 22 Q. Okay. And where within the rectangle of that
23 A. The floor was wood. 23 second floor would you have been located when you
24 0. Okay. Just plywood? 24 conducted that inspection?
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1 A. If I recall,the top of the stairs. 1 Q. When do you have a recollection of first being up
2 Q. So that would be at one side,so to speak,of the 2 on the roof of 131 Rear Derby?
3 floor? 3 A. I think the first time I was on the roof might -
4 A. Yes. 4 have been with the--the individual that bought the unit.
5 Q. And from that vantage point,did you see any 5 Q. Okay. And was this after problems were found?
6 evidence of any problem with the roof joists? 6 A. Yes.
7 A. I did not. 7 Q. Okay. As part of the issuance of a building
e Q. According to the--Well,strike that. 8 permit for a older brick building such as 131 Rear Derby
9 Based on your experience and the continuing 9 Street,would it have been the usual practice for the
10 education and so forth that you've undertaken as building 10 building department to conduct a visual exterior
11 commissioner,are there any guidelines as to how you're to 11 inspection of the building?
12 conduct an inspection after a demolition is completed? 12 A. Yes.
13 A. No. 13 Q. Was a visual inspection of the roof ever done
14 Q. Was it your usual practice back then to just walk 14 before the building permit for the renovations,either the
15 onto a floor and look at the roof joists from one vantage 15 demolition or the interior renovations,were issued?
16 point? 16 A. No. I--My inspection on the exterior was 1
17 A. Yes. 17 looked at the brick and the condition of the brick,the
1e Q. Were you able to tell if roof joists were seated is exterior walls.
19 into the brick wall during that inspection? 19 Q. Was that done the same day as the footings were
20 A. I did not look at that detail. 20 inspected?
21 Q. Based on your experience,would you have expected 21 A. Yes.
22 that's how the roof joists would have been structurally 22 Q. Was there anything physically with the building
23 present on the building? 23 itself that prevented you from going up on the roof?
24 A. Yes. 24 A. I don't recall.
54 56
1 Q. Did you make any effort to check,on any of the 1 Q. Was it your usual practice in conducting a visual
2 perimeter of the brick walls,the condition of the roof 2 exterior inspection to ever go up on a roof of a building?
3 joists where they were seated into the brick walls? 3 A. Not generally,unless there was cause;if I saw
4 A. No. 4 something that looked out of the ordinary.
5 - Q. Are there any regulations or codes that would 5 Q. Okay. So If you had seen anything in your
6 govern an inspection such as the one you conducted of the 6 interior inspection of the second floor that caused you
7 second floor at that time? 7 any concern about the root,for example,if you saw some
8 A. Not that I'm aware of. a water stains on some of the wood,that would have
9 Q. Have you ever,in your years with the City of 9 triggered an inspection of the roof?
10 Salem Building Department,conducted a more detailed 10 A. Yes.
11 inspection of roof joists after a demolition project such 11 Q. Okay. But that was definitely not done by you
12 as this,more detailed than the one you did at 131 Rear 12 for this inspection,correct?
13 Derby Street? 13 A. It was not.
14 A. I can't think of one specifically. 14 Q. So by the time you completed your inspection of
15 Q. Okay. Was anyone with you when you did this 15 the footings,the interior and the exterior,there was
16 inspection,Mr.St.Pierre? 16 nothing that caused you any concern at that time,
17 A. No. 17 Mr.St.Pierre,about the roof joists?
18 Q. At that time or at any time before you--Well, 18 A. That's correct.
19 strike that. 19 Q. Okay. And the roof joists were definitely open
20 On that visit,Mr.St.Pierre,where you 20 to you to observe if you so chose?
21 inspected the footings and did your interior inspection 21 A. The—To my recollection,they were,yes.
22 after the demolition,by that day or at any time prior to 22 Q. Now,for the--Well,let me ask you this
23 that,did you ever go up on the roof of the building? 23 question: On Exhibits 3A or 3B or any of the other
24 A. To that date,I don't think so. 24 permits that have been issued for 131 Rear,has any permit
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1 ever issued by the building department ever identified 1 A. Correct.
2 that brick structure as a controlled building? 2 Q. Okay. Other than going to look at those windows
3 A. Any document? 3 that were the subject of the zoning issue,were you on
4 Q. Yes,sir. 4 site at 131 Rear Derby from the time the interior work
5 A. No. 5 started until it was completed?
6 Q. Do you have any knowledge,one way or the other, 6 A. I don't believe so.
7 if 131 Rear Derby Street is a controlled building as 7 Q. Were any of your inspectors on the property
s defined by the building code? a during that time frame?
9 A. I don't recall at this time. 9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Is it true that one-and two-family residences 10 Q. Okay. What would have been the first inspection
11 are exempt from controlled building definitions? 11 done once the interior work started in your checklist
12 A. Generally--There's been some debate about that, 12 of--
13 but generally,yes. 13 A. After the footing that I did,the next inspection
14 Q. Okay. Okay. Let's look,if we could, 14 would have been the rough frame.
15 Mr.St. Pierre,at Exhibit 3A,which is--again, is the 15 Q. Rough frame of what?
16 building permit for the interior renovation,correct? 16 A. Of the structure itself. In a brick building,it
17 A. (Deponent viewing document). Correct. 17 would have been just a quick look at the petition walls.
is Q. Okay. Now,after you had done your inspection, 18 It's basically a check to make sure fire blocking is in
19 was the building permit,Exhibit 3A,issued? 19 place,to make sure that the plumbing,electrical and gas
20 A. Yes. 20 have been signed off before the walls get closed up.
21 Q. Okay. And again, I'm not asking for dates or 21 Q. So before your fellows went in,would you have
22 anything,but the chronology would be the demolition is 22 expected,for example,the electrical inspector to have
23 completed,it's inspected, it passes,and then,when 23 already done his or her inspection?
24 applied for,the building permit for the interior 24 A. Yes.
58 60
1 renovation is issued? 1 Q. And gas fitters,if need be?
2 A. They might have overlapped,but we would not 2 A. Yes. Yes.
3 require the demo permit to be necessarily closed out 3 Q. Okay. Is that coordinated somehow between the
4 before the application of the building permit. 4 various departments or does the contractor take care of
5 Q. But obviously,if you'd seen anything that 5 the scheduling?
6 concemed you after the demolition had been inspected,you 6 A. Contractors are pretty much aware of the
7 could have stopped the interior renovation? 7 sequence.
a A. Absolutely. a Q. Okay. Do you know who did the rough frame -
9 Q. Sure. Now,in that interior renovation,from the 9 inspection for the city at 131 Derby that's referenced in
10 time it started--Again,not the demolition,but once the 10 Exhibit 3A9
11 interior renovation started until it was completed, 11 A. Joe Barbeau. -
12 Mr.St.Pierre,did you go on the property? 12 Q. Where is Mr.Barbeau currently?
13 A. Probably once. 13 A. Joe Barbeau is working in Virginia.
14 Q. Okay. And when probably was that? 14 Q. Do you know where?
15 A. I believe there was an issue regarding windows 15 A. I don't have the exact--I can get that for you.
16 that I went down to take a look at. 16 Q. Okay.
17 Q. Were those windows at the rear of the building? 17 A. Yes.
18 A. I believe they were. - 16 Q. All nght. Do you know what he's doing down
19 Q. Okay. And did that have something to do with the 19 there?
20 variance and everything? 20 A. He's working as a project manager for a
21 A. Variance and proximity to the lot line,yes. 21 subcontractor on a military base.
22 Q. Right. Okay. And initially,the windows were 22 Q. Okay. When a rough framing inspection is done by
23 rejected,but then after further appeals and so forth,the - 23 one of your people,at least back in 2005,is any type of
24 variance was granted? 124 documentation or paperwork generated?
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1 A. I'll refer back to that electronic record that 1 1 joists?
2 need to review and print for you guys. 2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And again, I--I know that you're going to do 3 Q. At anytime after that root--rough framing
4 that for us,and I appreciate it,but what can we expect 4 inspection was done by Mr.Barbeau,did he ever say
5 to see on that printout:what information is generally 5 anything to you about what he found?
6 contained? 6 A. No.
7 A. Just,generally,pass or fail,and then there 7 Q. Did he ever,at any time,identify any problems
8 might be a footnote. There is a place to type in a 8 from his inspection of the rough framing?
9 comment. 9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay. So for example,if something needed to be 10 Q. What next would have been done by your
11 collected before it could be passed,that would be noted? 11 department?
12 A. Correct. 12 A. The next step would have been insulation
13 Q. Now,for that project,when the rough framing was 13 inspection,basically just inspecting the insulation job
14 inspected,that would have been before any Sheetrock was 14 before the drywall goes up.
15 put on the walls? 1s Q. And that would be my next question. So after you
16 A. Correct. 16 inspected the framing,which would be accepting the
17 Q. Would that have been before any Sheetrock was put 17 insulation,at least some of it,then once the insulator
is on the ceilings? 18 went in and did his or her work,then your people would be
19 A. Correct. 19 back to look at that?
20 Q. Would strapping have been placed on the roof 20 A. Correct.
21 joists prior to.the rough inspection? 21 Q. What would you be looking for there?
22 A. Yes. 22 A. Just that the proper R-values were used and the
23 Q. And what--So let me ask you this question: 23 proper vapor barrier's up.
24 Would you have expected Mr. Barbeau to look at the 24 Q. Now,the fire blocking that you've referenced
62 64
1 strapping that was affixed to the roof joists? 1 earlier,is that part of the rough framing inspection?
2 A. Yes. 2 A. It is.
3 Q. Would you have expected Mr.Barbeau to also look 3 Q. Where does the fire blocking go?
4 at the roof joists themselves? 4 A. Fire blocking fills any gaps or spaces between
5 A. Normally,part of a rough frame would include 5 floors. Basically,it's trying to compartmentalize the
6 that,yes. 6 floor to separate it from the floor above.
7 Q. Would you expect,in light of the height of the 7 Q. If the second-floor floor,as you referred to it
e roof joists,that he would have been looking at them with 8 earlier,was wood,as you remembered it being when you
9 a flashlight or some other typeofilluminating device? 9 first got there the day you looked at the footings as
10 A. Not necessarily. 10 well,would you have expected that any plywood that was
11 Q. If there was,say,a droplight in the project 11 used as a subsurface for the floor would have been removed
12 already,would you expect that he'd make use of that? 12 and fire blocking put into the floor joists?
13 A. Probably not. 13 A. Fire blocking—In the rough inspection,fire
14 Q. Would you expect that he would be asking 14 blocking would be inspected between studs,fillingall the
15 questions of the contractors involved in erecting the 15 floor joists to separate one floor from another,and the
16 framing as to whether they encountered any difficulties or 16 material used needs to be either two-by material or
17 issues? 17 three-quarter plywood.
18 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. So maybe my question was a poor one.
19 Q. But what you would expect him to do would be to 19 Probably was.
20 check out the framing of the interior walls and the--if 20 A. That's okay.
21 any type of floor framing had to be done,you would expect 21 Q. When you were thereto do your inspection of the
22 him to look at that,correct? 22 footings,you noticed that it was a wood floor you were
23 A. Correct. 23 standing on,on the second floor?
24 Q. And you would expect him to look at the roof 24 A. I believe so.
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1 0. Okay. You don't recall if there was plywood 1 Q. And if he had, you would have expected him to
2 down. I assume it wasn't just joists,correct? 2 have it in that computer report that you're going to
3 A. It was not Just Joists. - 3 access?
4 0, Okay. As part of the fire blocking required by 4 A. Yes.
5 the code,if there was just plywood as the subfloor of the s Q. Was insulation placed above the second floor
6 second floor,would the contractor have had to remove that 6 ceiling level?
7 plywood,make sure the blocking was proper and then have 7 A. I didn't do the inspection. I would assume so.
8 your rough framer look at it? a 0. Was Mr.Barbeau the inspector for that as well?
9 A. Not if it was visible from the floor below. 9 A. He was.
10 Q. Okay, 10 Q. Okay. Based on your knowledge of the building
11 A. Or the floor above. 11 code,would you have expected insulation to have been
12 Q. All right. Okay. Now,as part of the rough 12 placed in the roof joists above the second floor at 131
13 frame inspection that Mr.Barbsau did at 131 Rear, when he 13 Derby?
14 was looking at the framing,he would have been looking to 14 A. I would refer to the architect's plan to see if
15 make sure that there was fire blocking in the roof joists; is it was called out,because on a flat roof, insulation can
16 is that fair? 16 be applied from above. -
17 MR.O'SHEA: Objection. 17 Q. Okay. Well,that would require taking the rubber
1e You may answer. 1e membrane off,correct?
19 (Reporter requested clarification). 19 A. It would.
.20 MR.O'SHEA: I said objection,you may 20 Q. If you didn't want to do that,you would have to
21 answer. 21 go from below?
22 A. Yes. 22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. And in order to check to see if there was 23 0. But whether it was put in from above or put in
24 fire blocking in the roof joists above the second floor, 24 from below,you would expect that insulation would have
66 68
1 he would have to visually look down each row of joists, 1 been within the roof joists at 131 Rear Derby Street?
2 would he not? 2 A. Yes.
3 A. He would have to take a visual look,yes. 3 0. And Mr.Barbeau would have been just checking the
4 Q. And that's a visual look you would expect him to 4 R-values?
s make from the floor level. 5 A. Yes.
6 A. Yes. 6 Q. Would he have also been looking at the manner in
7 Q. Standing on the floor and looking up. 7 which the insulation was affixed to the roof joists?
8 A. Yes. 8 A. No.
9 0. But unlike your inspection of the joists the 9 0. Okay. Obviously,if some roll of insulation was
10 first time,which was just from one point on the second 10 draping down,he would know that that was incorrectly
11 floor,it would have been your expectation that 11 installed9
12 Mr. Barbeau would have looked,essentially,at all of the 12 A. Correct.
13 joists above the second floor,the roof joist,correct? 13 Q. What else would be inspected by the city as part
14 A. If--if fire blocking was called for, I would 114 of this renovation at 131 Rear?
15 expect Joe to look for that,yes. 1s A. At this stage or--
16 Q. Okay. In construction of this kind,would you 16 Q. Atter the insulation.
17 not expect fire blocking to be required up there? 17 A. After the insulation,we would not be back there
16 A. I'd have to--I'd have to see the application. 1E until the finish stages.
19 Probably. Likely. 19 Q. Okay. And by"finish,"we're talking Sheetrock
20 Q. Did Mr. Barbeau ever mention anything to you 20 walls,sanded,painted, all the mechanicals in,correct?
21 after doing his rough framing inspection that he 21 A. Correct.
22 identified any problems with the joist--the roof joists 22 Q. Okay.
23 when he was checking the fire blocking? 23 A. And after the other trades have finished.
24 A. He did not. 24 0. Sure.
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1 A. Inspected. 1 Q. Okay. And what was your first knowledge that
2 Q. In other words,ready to-- 2 there were problems?
3 A. Ready to turn key. 3 A. If I recall, I was contacted by the condo owner,
4 Q. Ready to tum key. Okay. And again,you would 4 Mr. Fitzpatrick, I believe,and asked to take a look at
5 anticipate that the results of that inspection would be on 5 some problems he was having.
6 - your computer? 6 Q. And what problems were those?
7 A. Yes. 7 A. I believe it was--it started with leaking roof,
8 Q. Okay. Okay. During the renovation project 8 and in the process of investigating that,his roofers
9 itself, Mr. St. Pierre,which,again,is reflected by our 9 found some other problems.
10 documents here,did you have any interaction of any kind 10 Q. Who were his roofers?
- 11 with anyone from H.H.Morant? 11 A. I believe it was the O'Keefe Brothers.
12 A. Yes, I did. 12 Q. Okay. And there was a piece of correspondence--
13 Q. With whom? 13 fairly detailed piece of correspondence from them in your
14 A. Usually Michael Lutrzykowski. I probably 14 file.
15 murdered his name,but Michael. 15 A. There was.
16 Q. 1 could ask you to spell it, but I won't. 16 Q. After you first became aware of any issues with
17 A. It's on a document. 17 the property,from that point,sir,to today,have you had
18 Q. I know it is. 18 any communication with anyone from H. H.Morant?
19 A. Yeah. 19 A. Yes.
20 Q. So you did have interaction with Michael? 20 Q. What?
21 A. I did. 21 A. We continue--They have projects going in Salem
22 Q. Okay. What was the nature of the interaction 22 all the time.
23 during the renovation project? 23 Q. Bad question.
24 A. It was the usual conversations. One of them 24 From the time you first learned of the roof
70 72
1 was--Michael was the lead, if you would,for H. H. 1 problem at 131 Rear Derby Street until today,have you had
2 Morant on the variance for the windows. We had several z any further communication with anyone from H.H.Morant
3. discussions around that. Other than that,probably just 3 about 131 Rear Derby Street?
4 routine questions or answers back and forth. I don't 4 A. I don't recall specifically.
5 recall anything specific. 5 Q. Okay. Bear with me for a second,sir.
6 Q. When you had interaction with Mike from H. H. 6 One of the documents,Mr. St.Pierre,that was
7 Morant or any contractors,for that matter,if you did 7 contained within Exhibit 5,which is one of the folders
a have any interaction,would you keep any type of diary or a you brought with you, is that report. It's titled Don
9 log or notation about those interactions? 9 Jansen,J-a-n-s-e-n,Investigation Report;do you see
10 A. No. 10 that?
11 Q. So for example,if someone,whoever it was, 11 A. I did.
12 called you with a question about,does this comply with 12 Q. Whether you did it today or any time,have you
13 code,you might answer the question,and then that would 13 reviewed that report?
14 be the end of it? 14 A. I have.
15 A. Correct. 15 Q. Just based on the fax date at the top of the
16 Q. Okay. Other than the discussions with Mike about 16 report,it appears that it was transmitted at least in the
17 the windows and the variance,do you have a specific 17 spring of 2006,correct?
1e recollection of the content of any other communication 19 A. (Deponent viewing document). Correct.
19 with him during the renovation project itself? 19 Q. Sothis would have been after the renovation was
20 A. I do not. 20 completed?
21 Q. Okay.. Now,after the project was completed,at 21 A. Correa.
22 - some point,you became aware of some issues with the 22 Q. Okay. The report,quite frankly,appears to be
23 building? 23 critical of the electrical systems in the building;would
24 A. Yes. 24 you agree with that assessment?
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1 A. I agree. 1 Q. Okay. Do you have any other understanding as to
2 0. Do you know if this report pertains to 131 Rear 2 the nature of the allegations,other than what you've just
3 or the other building? Feel free to take a look. 3 told us?
4 A. (Deponent viewing document). It's hard to 4 A. No.
s determine. I'd say probably the front building,due to 5 0. Okay. After you learned of these issues,did you
6 the fact that it says"Unit 3F,"and to my knowledge, 6 see the damage that is--well,that was present in those
7 there's only two units in the rear building. 7 areas?
a Q. Okay. Couple minutes of questions. a A. I had an occasion to see a small sample area with
9 In what I believe is the street file,if I'm not 9 the owner,Mr. Fitzpatrick,and later on, I did see larger
10 mistaken,there are some-- 10 areas exposed.
i1 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Okay. And that disk that we were talking about
12 - Q. --certificates of inspection. One is for the 12 at the beginning of your deposition,do you understand the
13 year--is for--appears to be in 2001,and the other one 13 photographs contained within that disk are just of the
14 that I noticed appears to be from 2001 as well;do you see 14 damage that we're talking about?
15 those,sir? 15 A. I believe they are.
16 A. (Deponent viewing documents). I do. 16 Q. Okay. In other words,were any photographs,to
17 Q. Would your ordinarily--your ordinary 17 your knowledge,taken by anyone from the building
1e expectation be that comparable types of documents would be 1a department during the actual progress of the renovation?
19 in the folder for the renovation job that was done at 1.31 19 A. I don't think so.
20 Rear? 20 0. As part of any of the inspections that were done
21 A. No. 21 by the city,were any photographs taken?
22 G. Why not? 22 A. I don't think so.
23 A. These are periodic inspection forms. They're 23 0. Would that be.the usual practice?
24 typically done--They're required by the building code of 24 A. Yes.
74 76
1 existing buildings that are in use,apartment buildings, 1 0. To take photographs?
2 multiple tenant buildings. 2 A. No,not to take photographs. I'm sorry.
3 0. Okay. 3 Q. Okay. And the small sample that you saw,sir,
4 A. Just a quick overview of the structure. 4 with the owner,where was that located?
5 0. Okay. And then how frequently are those to be 5 A. It was--
6 performed,to your knowledge? 6 0. And please don't say north,south,east and
7 A. They can--There's a schedule in the building 7 west. If--if I'm looking at the front of the building,
a code. They can be as infrequent as five years,and they 8 okay,I'm standing at the front door,and imagine that 1
9 can, in some cases,be twice a year. 9 then raise myself up to the roof level,where would i be
10 0. So,in fact,you wouldn't have expected those 10 looking?
11 types of reports to be in the folder for the renovation; 11 A. It was, I believe,a section in the rear and the
12 is that fair? 12 right-rear comer. Right rear and right-rear corner.
13 A. Correct. 13 Q. Would that be above the garage area?
14 Q. Okay. Do you have any understanding, 14 A. That would be above the living unit, I believe.
1s Mr. St.Pierre,as to the nature of the allegations that 15 Q. Okay. All right. Okay. And the areas that you
16 are being made in this litigation? 16 saw,sir,was that near the doghouse;in other words,the
17 A. I do. 17 access up into the roof?
1e Q. What is your understanding,sir? 1e A. I did see an area near the doghouse,also,yes.
19 A. My understanding is that deficiencies in the 19 0. Okay.
20 structure, particularly the ends of the roof rafters or 20 A. That was exposed.
21 roof joists,had obvious damage or damage that was there 121 0. All right. And what damage did you see there?
22 during the renovation process. -22 A. Same type of water damage,rot.
23 0. Mm-hmm. 23 0. Mm-hmm. ..
24 A. And was identified afterwards. 24 A. Typical of a long-term roof leak.
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1 Q. Okay. The photographs that were taken by 1 Q. And with whom did you discuss it?
2 Mr.Barbeau,do you know when those were taken in 2 A. It would have been Michael. .
3 relationship to your visit with the owner when you 3 Q. What was said?
a personally observed the problems? a A. Probably just a notation of the problem,and 1
5 A. I believe those were taken just atter that. 1 5 don't recall anything specific.
6 believe I mentioned to Joe that I would like some--some 6 Q. Did Michael indicate to you that he was aware
7 photographs. 7 that that rot was present?
e Q. And did he just photograph the areas that you a A. He was aware at that time that--because the
9 observed or did he photograph more areas? 9 issue had come toward.
10 A. I believe he photographed a significant amount of 10 Q. I'm glad you clarified my question.
11 the areas. 11 Did Mr.--Or did Mike indicate to you, Mike from
12 Q. Did you ever look at those photographs? 12 H.H.Moran,did he indicate to you that he had been
13 A. I have. It's been some time. i3 aware that there was rot in the roof joists prior to the
14 Q. Sure. The damage that you observed either 14 renovation being completed?
15 personally or through those photographs,Mr.St.Pierre, 1s A. No.
16 was that damage observable by you when you did your 16 Q. Okay. Do you have any knowledge from any source,
17 inspection the day you inspected the footings? 17 Mr.St.Pierre,that anyone from H.H.Morant had been
1e A. It was not. 1e made aware of this rot during the renovation?
19 Q. Was that damage observable--Or would you expect 19 A. No.
20 that that damage would have been observable by Mr.Barbeau 20 Q. Now,since the time that the problems were
21 when he did his rough framing inspection? 21 discovered,from that point to today,have you had any
22 A. No. 22 further communication with anyone from H.H.Morant about
23 Q. Why not? 23 anything having to do with the problems at 131 Rear Derby
24 A. The--I don't recall the height of the ceiling, 24 Street?
78 80
1 but it was fairly high. It was not your typical seven-or 1 A. After thisproject was over?
2 eight-foot ceiling. It's probably in the 10-or 12-foot 2 0. Yes,sir.
3 range. 3 A. No.
a Q. Yeah. s Q. Okay. So the only conversations or communication
5 A. And to be quite frank,it's not something we 5 would have been with Mike,and this would have been after
6 would normally be looking for. We would expect that if-- 6 the problem was found,correct?
7 if a builder found a deficiency like that,that they would 7 A. Correct.
6 correct that,not wait for us to find it. a C. All right. And do you recall anything he did say
9 Q. Okay. The rot that you referred to,was that on 9 other than that he did not have any knowledge of this
10 the top of the roof joists? 10 during the renovation project?
11 A. It was throughout the and of the--the joist, 11 A. No.
12 basically the part that bears on the masonry. Beginning 12 Q. Okay.
13 at the very end of the joist and getting less rotted as 13 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. I don't think I have any
14 you move back in. 14 other questions for you,Mr.St.Pierre. I like to thank
15 Q. At any time before the renovation started or even 1s you for your time,and what we'll do is--Well,let me
16 during the renovation, Mr.St. Pierre,did you go up on 16 put this on the record, I guess. Well,strike that.
17 the roof of that building? 17 Let's go off the record.
1e A. I don't believe so. 18 (Discussion off the record).
19 Q. Have you had any discussionswithanyone from H. 19 MR.JAROSAK: All right. We've had a short
20 H. Morant about what your observations were of this 20 discussion off the record about some bookkeeping matters,
21 problem? 21 and what we're going to do is i am going to retain
22 A. Back at this time? - 22 possession,once the deposition is completed,of all the
23 Q. Back at this time,first,yeah. 23 documents which we have marked as exhibits today. I will
za A. I--I'm sure we discussed it,yes. 24 make the necessary.copies for all counsel,and then I will
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1 return directly to Mr.St. Pierre his original documents, 1 THE DEPONENT: Absolutely.
2 which he will then agree to keep in a safe place and not 2 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. While we're taking care
3 discard,fair? 3 of this,anyone else think of anything else that 1
4 THE DEPONENT: Correct. 4 should--
s MR.JAROSAK: Okay, Mr. St. Pierre will be 5 MS.HARDY: Applications,did you say that?
6 kind enough to reproduce the disk that he believes exists, 6 MR.JAROSAK: Applications for permits?
7 photographs,and he will send that to me. And perhaps 7 MS.HARDY: Building permit applications?
6 other counsel can correspond directly with Mr.St. Pierre a MR. MUGGED: I think we have those.
9 if they want copies,as well,of the disk. 9 MR.JAROSAK: I think we have them,but--
10 1 don't know if there's an expense involved, 10 MS.OFTRING: You know,the problem is,we
11 Mr.St.Pierre. Maybe you could-- 11 haven't really had a chance to go--at least I haven't
12 THE DEPONENT: I think it's negligible. 12 had a chance to go through everything that was produced
13 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. Maybe what we'll do, 13 today--
14 then,is we'll make six copies,and then whatever the cost 14 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. Yeah.
15 is,that will be bome by counsel,okay? And then you 1s MS.OFTRING: --so.
16 will also agree to make a search of the other documents 16 MR. MUGGED: If there's more before we -
17 and items that we have discussed,and you can provide that 17 adjourn,we'll add more.
18 to your counsel,and he will then forward the information 18 MR.JAROSAK: Okay.
19 to me,and I'll then share it with everyone else. 19 MR.MUGGED: Fair enough? -
20 THE DEPONENT: Okay. 20 MR.JAROSAK: Why don't we do that?
21 MR.JAROSAK: Fair? 21 THE DEPONENT: There are applications that go
22 THE DEPONENT: Fair. 22 with each one of those permits if they're--
23 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. 23 MR.JAROSAK: Oh,okay.
24 MR. PARISELLA: Should we clarify what you're 24 .MS.HARDY: That's--Yeah,that was--
82 84
1 looking for,just to make sure? 1 MR.JAROSAK: Yeah.
2 MR..JAROSAK: Yeah, I know he's got his 2 THE DEPONENT: Fairly lengthy,and--I don't
3 little notations there,but why don't-- 3 know. But if they're pertinent,we'll certainly--
4 MR.PARISELLA: Files. 4 MR.JAROSAK: Well,they would be.
5 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. What--What we have 5 MR.MUGGED: We only have one.
6 agreed that you will search for and produce,if it exists, 6 MR.JAROSAK: Yeah.
7 Mr.St.Pierre, is your index card files for the site 7 MS.HARDY: Yeah. I would request that,add
e which predate the year 2000. 1 believe you were going to, a that to the list. -
9 just for your own edification or purposes,correct 9 MR.JAROSAK: Yeah. If you could also
10 Mr.Blaise's name on one of the permits. And then you 10 produce those,then,Mr.St.Pierre,I--I think that
11 were going to check your computer to see if inspections of 11 would be helpful. I assumed those were--would have been
12 the work done at 131 Rear Derby Street exists,and if so, 12 part of the request.
13 you'll print those out and provide that to us. 13 MS.OFTRING: Do any of these files have
14 THE DEPONENT: Correct. 14 letters going back and forth between the city and--
15 MR.JAROSAK: Is that--Is that what we've 15 MR.MUGGED: I have one letter,July 26th,
16 agreed to? 16 2006.
17 THE DEPONENT:-Yes. - 19 MS.OFTRING: I think that's the only one
1e MR.MUGGED: Along with certificates of 1s that I've--
19 occupancy. Or are they in a different file-in a different 19 MR.JAROSAK: Why don't I
20 department? 20 MR.MUGGED: I think you had more stuff than
21, THE DEPONENT: No. They should be there,and 21 was in this--
22 that concerned me when I was doing this search. 22 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. Are we still on the
23 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. So if those exist as 23 record-, Okay. Why don't we go off the record?
24 well, you'll provide us with those,sir? 24 (Discussion off the record).
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1 MR. MUGGED: Are you all set? 1 --
2 EXAMINATION 2 A. Yes.
3 BY-MR.MUGGEO: 3 Q, --there on site?
4 Q. Good afternoon,sir. My name is Lou Muggeo. 1 4 A. Yes.
5 represent Mr.Legon. I want to follow up on a few s Q. And do you remember speaking with anyone during
6 questions. 6 the course of the inspection?
7 What was the purpose of your inspection following 7 A. I don't remember particularly.
a the demolition? - a Q. And did you take any notes?
9 A. The--I was there to inspect the footing. 9 A. No.
10 Q. And you indicated that in addition to inspecting 10 Q. And I believe you indicated you took no
11 the footing,you inspected the interior above the brick 11 photographs.
12 building,the rear building? 12 A. Correct.
13 A. Correct. 13 Q. And if there was something unusual ore
14 Q. And what specifically was the purpose of your 14 deficiency noted,you would have made a notation?
15 inspection of the rear brick building? 15 A. I probably would have just had a discussion at
16 A. To see what the starting point was;in other 16 that point with the builder or--or developer.
17 words, I had not been inside that building other than the 17 Q. And what was the date of that inspection?
18 garage area prior to that. 1e A. I don't know.
19 Q. And what were you looking for during the course 19 Q. It would be the date--some date reflected after
20 of that inspection of the rear brick building? 20 the date on the permit?
21 A. Nothing in particular,just if anything jumped 21 A. Correct.
22 out or anything unusual. 22 Q. And did you return to your office following the
23 Q. What types of things would jump out at you or 23 demolition inspection?
24 would you consider unusual? 24 A. Not directly.
86 88
1 A. If I saw some sort of floor sagging or something, 1 Q. Well,at some point you did?
2 a brick bulging,something unusual like that. 2 A. Sure.
3 Q. Some Type of structural deficiency? 3 Q. And did you make any notations either
4 A. Yes. 4 electronically or on paper regarding the results of your
5 Q. And as a result of your inspection,you noted no 5 inspection?
6 structural deficiencies? 6 A. No.
7 A. None visual. None noted. 7 Q. And I believe you indicated that the premises
e Q. And did you use a checklist? .a passed the inspection?
9 A. I did not. 9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And did you apply any standards in conducting 10 Q. And when did you next inspect the premises other
11 your inspection? 11 than the inspections attendant to the windows?
12 A. No. 12 A. I--1 don't think I did anymore inspections in
13 Q. And how long was your inspection of the brick 13 between there. I believe Joe Barbeau did the bulk of
14 building? 14 those.
15 A. Probably about 10 minutes. 15 Q. And during this time,what was the procedure and
16 Q. And who was with you during the course of that 16 protocol in Salem for the issue of a certificate of
17 inspection? 17 occupancy?
1s A. I don't recall. 1e A. A certificate of occupancy is granted after the
19 Q. Were there any contractors on site with you while 19 building card is more or less filled up by the subtrades:
20 you were doing your inspection? 20 electric,plumbing,gas,some cases the fire department.
21 A. I don't recall who was there. 21 Once all of those inspections are complete,we go through
22 Q. And were you taking any notes? 22 and dothe final building inspection. And at that point,
23 A. I was not alone. 23 the card should be turned in,and we make a copy of the
24 Q. So there may have been a contractor or developer 124 card for the applicant and issue a certificate of
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1 occupancy. 1 it was issued or whether it was just missing from the
2 Q. And do you know who conducted the final 2 record. But I'm certainly going to follow that up.
3 inspection with regard to 131 Rear Derby? 3 Q. Now,at some point,you indicated you were
4 A. Joe Barbeau. 4 contacted by one of the unit owners,Mr. Fitzpatrick?
5 Q. The gentleman in Virginia? 5 A. Correct.
6 A. Yes. 6 Q. Do you recall when he contacted you?
7 Q. And do you know what is required of him with 7 A. No.
8 regard to the final inspection? 8 Q. Do you recall what he said to you?
9 A. Final inspection,generally,is just a walk 9 A. It was a concern about the leaking roof and some
1.0 through. It's to make sure the other trades have 10 of the things that the roofer had found when he peeled
11 completed their work. We check for compliance on handrail 11 back some of the areas.
12 height,stairs,run rise,typical building code items. In 12 Q. And as a result of that discussion with
13 a controlled building,if it's subject to controlled 13 Mr. Fitzpatrick;did you,at some point,go to the
14 construction,we need to get affidavits from the 14 premises?
1s architects. 1s A. I did.
16 Q. What is a controlled building? 16 Q. And do you recall when you went to the premises?
17 A. Controlled building is a building that encloses 17 A. Not the exact date.
18 35,000 enclosed cubic feet. 18 Q. Do you recall whether it was the spring,summer
19 Q. And do you know how large this building was? 19 or fall? - -
2D A. I do not. 20 A. No.
21 Q. Have you conducted insulation inspections? 21 Q. Do you know how many times you went to the
22 A. I have. 22 premises after the construction was completed?
23 Q. And what is your procedure and protocol with 23 A. I do not.
24 regard to insulation inspections? 24 Q. As part of the records you produced,there's a
90 92
1 A. Simply to make sure that all the areas are 1 letter that you authored dated July 18th of 2006.
2 insulated,that proper R-value is used and that,where 2 A. I did see it in there.
3 needed,a vapor barrier is applied. 3 Q. You know what? We have a copy,and we'll take a
4 Q. And that's done by a visual inspection? - 4 look at that,and we'll find it.
5 A. Visual inspection,yes. 5 A. (Deponent viewing document).
6 Q. And again,with regard to the insulation 6 MS.OFTRING: Is it July 18 or 28?
7 inspection here,did you discuss any aspects of that 7 MR. O'SHEA: Twenty-eight.
8 insulation inspection with Inspector Barbeau? 6 MR. MUGGED: Twenty-eight,excuse me.
9 A. I don't recall any. 9 You know which file this would be in?
10 Q. And who would have issued the certificate of 10 MR.JAROSAK: Next one, I think. Keep going.
11 occupancy in connection with 131 Rear Derby Street? .11 MR. MUGGEO: Seven?
12 A. Likely,it would have been Joe Barbeau. Either 12 MR.JAROSAK: Is that it,first one? Here it
13 one of us could have,but usually we let the inspector 13 is.
14 that's doing the job follow it through. 14 THE DEPONENT: All by itself.
15 Q. And you have no personal knowledge of signing 15 MR. MUGGED: Just so the record clear,why
16 such a CO? - - 16 don't we mark this as BA? - -
17 A. I don't recall it, no. 17 MR.JAROSAK: However you want to do it.
18 Q. And where would the actual copy of the CO exist; 18 (Exhibit-8A,Letter dated 7/28/06,marked for
19 in which file,in your file or another department in the 19 identification).
20 city? 20 BY MR.MUGGEO: -
21 A. No. It would be in--in my department. A--1 21 Q. What's been marked as Exhibit 8A appears to be a
22 should mention,a copy generally gets forwarded to the 22 copy of a letter you authored dated July 28th,2006.
22 assessor's office. So in--in the record search here,1 23 A. (Deponent viewing document).
24 did note that that wasn't there,and I'm concerned whether 24 Q. Have you reviewed that letter prior to today
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1 other than the time that you wrote the letter? 1 Q. And the observations were made as a result of the
2 A. I have. 2 roofing membrane being peeled back?
3 Q. What prompted you to write the letter? 3 A. Yes.
4 A. This was a follow-up to the inspection. 4 Q. And what else was removed in order for you to
s Basically a follow-up of the inspection done on July 24th 5 make your observations?
6 of'06. 6 A. I believe there was a layer of--of some form of
7 Q. Was that the only time you visited the premises i insulation between the rubber and the wood sheathing,if
s after it was initially completed? a you would. -
9 A. I believe so. 9 Q. So first,there was a roof membrane,then there
10 Q. And the photos that you were asked about,the 10 was a layer of insulation,and then there was roof
11 photos were taken on that day? 11 sheathing?
12 A. Yes. 12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Which would--references July 24th,2006? 13 Q. And the damage you discovered was under the--
14 A. Yes. 14 those three items,correct?
15 Q._ And why were photos taken? 1s A. Correct.
16 A. I was concerned about the--Obviously this was a 16 Q. Did you,at any time on July 24th,go into the
17 problem,and obviously it was going to--it was going to 17 interior of the premises?
16 cause somebody aproblem,and it was--you know,that it 16 A. I don't believe so. Well,I should check that.
19 would eventually result in some finger-pointing or 19 We came up through the interior. We came out through the
20 something,so we thought it wise to document it. 20 doghouse or whatever to--and gain access to the roof.
21 Q. You indicated that you had an understanding as to 21 Q. Were you able to observe any damage,structural
22 the nature of the litigation. Where did you obtain that 22 damage,from the interior of the premises?
23 understanding? 23 A. Not at that point. It was all Sheetrocked.
24 A. Just from the general--general observations or 24 Q. Who was present with you when you made your
94 96
1 --or conversations that we've had. 1 inspection on July 24th,2006?
2 Q. Let's start with your observations. The only 2 A. Joe Barbeau and I believe Mr.Fitzpatrick.
3 observations you made were the observations you made with 3 Q. And what did Mr.Fitzpatrick sayto you during
4 Mr.Barbeau on July 24th,2006,correct? 4 the course of that inspection?
5 A. The only observations? s A. I don't recall the exact conversation.
6 Q. Well,the only personal observations you made 6 Q. Recall the gist of the conversation?
7 were on one occasion. 7 A. That he was concerned,and—and properly so.
s A. I--Okay. I'm sure I made other personal a Q. What did you say to him?
9 observations. It's just not reported or written in the 9 A. I don't recall.
10 tetter. 10 Q. How long were you on the premises on July 241h,
11 Q. You indicated you made observations in connection 11 2006?
12 with your demolition inspection,correct? 12 A. I was probably there a half an hour,and 1
13 A. Correct. 13 believe Joe stayed longer,or he may have come back to
14 Q. And those observations did not discern any types 14 document them by camera. I know Joe was there longer than
15 of problems or structural defects? 15 1 was.
16 A. Correct. 16 Q. And was your inspection concentrated on the
17 Q. And then you physically inspected and 17 perimeter of the building?
16 photographed the premises on July 24th? 1e A. I--I cannot the remember the details;but I--
19 A. Correct. 19 1 was shown at least a couple of different areas;one up
20 O. And what did you observe on July 24th.of 2006? 20 against the doghouse,soto speak,and another one at the
21 A. Fairly substantial damaged structural members,in 21 edge of the root
22 particular,roof joists. 22 Q. And what you saw would be documented in the
23 Q. And those observations were made from the roof? 23 photographs that are referred to in the letter?
24 A. From above,yes. 24 A. Yes.
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1 Q. And those photographs would give us a better 1 identification).
2 picture of what you saw rather than what you recall today? 2 BY MR. MUGGEO:
3 A. Yes. 3 Q. That document was mailed to your office,sir--
4 Q. What do you recall? 4 A. Yes,it was.
5 A. Basically what we've just talked about,that the 5 Q. --or handed to you?
6 areas clearly had some damage, rot,caused by water 6 A. Mailed.
9 damage,long-term. 7 0. And prior to the document being mailed to you,
e 0. Was this on the end of the joist? a had you met with the O'Keefes?
9 A. It was. 9 A. No.
10 Q. And was that on the top of the joist? 10 Q. And you had spoken with the O'Keefes?
11 A. Generally. 11 A. I should check that. I believe the O'Keefes were
12 Q. When did you learn about the litigation? 12 on the roof the day that we were looking at those
13 A. Well,I don't recall the exact date. I certainly 13 conditions. At least one of the brothers.
14 received the notice-- 14 Q. So on the one time you were on the roof after the
i5 0. Other than through the subpoena-- 15 project was completed,which was July 24th,2006,the
16 A. Yeah;subpoena. 16 O'Keefes may have been there with Mr. Fitzpatrick?
17 Q. Other than Mr.Jarosak's subpoena. 17 A. Yes.
18 A. I believe,at one point,the O'Keefe Brothers 18 Q. So it was Mr. Fitzpatrick,the O'Keefes and
19 contacted me rather unhappy. 19 Mr. Barbeau?
20 Q. When did you first have a discussion with the 20 A. To my recollection,yes.
21 O'Keefe Brothers regarding 131 Derby? 21 Q. And during the course of the inspection of July
22 A. The exact date, I don't recall. 22 24th,2006,what did the O'Keefes say to you?
23 _ Q. How about the year? 23 A. Very little conversation at the site. They just
24 A. It wasn't--wasn't too long after this a];came 24 were busy pulling back areas that had been temporarily
98 100
1 to light. Short time thereafter. 1 roofed in so that we could take a look at the damage. And
2 0. Who contacted you? 2 they were quickly putting it back into place afterwards.
3 A. I don't remember which brothers. Two brothers. 3 Q. Was the damage concentrated in one particular
4 0. Do you know their names? 4 section of the roof;and if so,what area would that be?
5 A. I don'trecall them offhand. I know them both by 5 And again,without using compass headings.
6 face,but I don't know which one. 6 A. I--I can't recall the exact areas.
7 Q. What did they say to you? 7 Q. What discussions,if any,did you have with
8 A. They were expressing concern about the conditions a Mr.Legon regarding the problems with the roof?
9 of the ratters and so on. 9 A. I don't remember any particular conversations
10 0. Okay. And what specifically did they say to you 10 with Mr.Legon.
11 regarding those concerns? 11 0. Did you ever have a discussion with Mr.Legon
12 A. I don't recall exactly. 12 regarding the roof problems and the damages that you saw?
13 Q. In your file,there's a letter from the 13 A. Not that I can recall. -
14 O'Keefes. Maybe you can find it for me. 14 0. Did you ever meet with him at any point to
15 A. (Deponent viewing document). By itself. Five. 15 discuss these issues?
16 0. You found a--Three pages? 16 A. Not that I recall. I mean,Mr.Legon was a
17 A. Three pages. 17 frequent visitor to my counter,but I--I don't remember
is Q. Three-page letter dated-- 1e any particular conversation.
19 A. Actually there's-- 19 0. When you say he was a frequent visitor to your
20 0. Attachments. 20 counter,what do you mean?
21 A. Attachments. 21 A. He--It's Mr.Legon's practice during process,
22 MR.MUGGED: It's a seven-page letter dated 22 instead of phone call--making a phone call,he
23 August 9th,2006,which we'll mark as 5A,please. 23 frequently stops by and discusses things at the counter.
24 (Exhibit-5A,Letter dated 8/9/06,marked for 24 C. Do you have a good relationship with Mr.Legon?
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1 A. Yes. 1 Q. How many,sir?
2 Q. Andhe has a good reputation in the community as 2 A. Hard to say. Two or three,probably.
3 a builder? 3 Q. And so how did you learn about the--Or where
4 A. I--I--Up to this, I hadn't had any problems. 4 did you gain your understanding of the litigation and the
5 Q. And did Mr. Legion ever indicate to you that he 5 legal process that was ongoing?
6 was aware of any of these problems during the course of 6 A. I--I believe Michael from H. H.Morant might
7 construction? ? have mentioned it in passing.
_a_ _._-A—No--_— _ _—____ ._ _ _._e__.Q-._What-did-hesay_toyouu? _____—___
9 Q. Who was the builder on this project? 9 A. Just--Just relating the fact that there was a
10 A. I'd have to check the records,the applications. 10 lawsuit,you know,on the property.
11 Q. Would any of the records in front of you indicate 11 Q. Did Mr.Fitzpatrick ever discuss the litigation
12 who the general contractor was? 12 with you?
13 A. They may have. I'd take a look at the building 13 A. No,not specifically.
14 permits. 14 MR.MUGGED: Okay. I have nothing further at
15 (Deponent viewing document). Well, I have the 15 this time,but we may have to reconvene once we get
16 contractor that did the structural repairs after the 16 additional material. So that's all I have at this point.
17 fact. You don't want him,do you? 17 THE DEPONENT: Okay.
18 Q. Who's that,Mr.Navarro? 18 EXAMINATION
19 A. I have a Steven Gavin(phonetic)as the applicant 19 BY-MR.WHITE:
20 for structural repairs of the roof. 20 Q. 1 just have a couple,sir. My name is Peter
21 0. And what permit number are you referring to? 21 White. I represent Mark Joly.
22 A. (Deponent viewing document). 162-07. 22 What communications,if any,did you have with
23 Q. And the date? 23 Mr.Joly during the course of the renovations at the brick
24 A. (Deponent viewing document). Issued August 30 of 24 building at 131 Derby Street?
102 104
1 '06. And the interior renovations,the applicant noted 1 A. Very,very little. I might have seen him once at
2 here is Paul Plaise,P-I-a-i-s-e,and that's one of the 2 the job, if i recall.
3 items we're going to double check. And that's Permit 3 Q. Do you have a specific recollection of having
4 Number 622-05. 4 seen him at the job or--or is that more or less a
s Q. What discussions,if any,have you had with 5 possibility?
6 Mr.O'Shea regarding this matter? Gentleman to your 6 A. I'd say it's a good possibility.
v right. 7 Q. Okay. Do you recall if--on that one occasion
a A. Mr.O'Shea? None that I know of. e - you may have observed him at the job,if you had any
9 Q. Ever spoke to him? 9 communications with him of any kind?
10 A. I don't think so. 10 A. Nothing other than typical conversation.
11 O. How about Mr.Navarro? Do you know who he is? 11 Chitchat.
12 A. Structural engineer? 12. Q. Did that conversation include anything about the
13 Q. He's one of the owners. 13 renovation work going on at 131 Derby Street Rear?
14 A. One of the owners? It does sound familiar. 1 14 A. Not that I can recall,anything specific.
15 think I did have some conversation with Mr.Navarro. 15 Q. All right. Other than the possibility of seeing
16 Q. And it's not your practice to keep notes or a 16 him once on the job site,did you have any other
17 diary of conversations? 17 communication of any kind with Mr.Joly regarding this
1e A. No. 18 project?
19 Q. And other than the first discussion you had with 19 A. Not that I recall.
20 Mr.Fitzpatrick when he made you aware of the problems and 20 Q. When you had the inspection on 24th of July,
21 seeing Mr.Fitzpatrick on site on July 24th,2006,have 21 you've indicated that you made some observations of the
22 you had further discussions with Mr.Fitzpatrick? 22 joists from above and that,at that time,the roof
23 A. Just atter that date,I--I did have more 23 membrane had been pulled back;is that correct?
24 conversation with Mr.Fitzpatrick,yes,sir. 24 A. That's correct.
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1 0. And it was the O'Keefe Brothers that pulled the 1 0. And your recollection is that it was not at the
2 membrane back? 2 time that you were present on the 24th of July of 2006,
3 A. Yes. 3 but sometime thereafter?
4 0. Did you observe that process as it was ongoing? 4 A. Shortly thereafter,probably the same day.
s A. It had already been pulled back and roof-- 5 0. Have you ever observed any correspondence or any
6 temporarily roofed back over to try to keep it 6 other documentation from Mr.Joly either in the course of
7 weathertight. 7 the renovation project or when the various problems were
8 0. What would that require,to remove the roof-- a discovered thereafter?
9 roof membrane to make these observations? 9 A. I have not.
10 A. Roof membrane either has to be cut or peeled 10 MR.WHITE: I don't have anything else at
11 back. It has to be detached from the edge,the drip edge, 11 this time.
12 and peeled back or cut back. 12 EXAMINATION
13 O. Was this particular roof membrane one that 13 BY-MS.OFTRING
14 involved any gravel? 14 0. Good afternoon, Mr.St.Pierre. My name is Susan
15 A. No. As I recall,it was an adheic(phonetic) 1s Oftring. I represent O'Keefe Brothers Construction.
16 - rubber roof. 16 Have you told us today all that you can remember
17 0. And at the time of your inspection,is it your 17 about any conversations that you had with anyone
18 recollection that there was a single roof membrane or that 1e affiliated with O'Keefe Brothers Construction?
19 there was more than one roof membrane? 19 A. Yes.
20 A. I don't recall more than one. 20 0. Referring your attention,please,sir,I think it
21 0. The insulation that you've described that also 21 was marked as Exhibit BA,your letter dated July 28,2006;
22 _ had to be removed in order to facilitate that inspection 22 do you have that nearby?
23 on the 24th of July,can you describe that insulation for 23 MS.OFTRING: If someone can help him,I'd
24 me? 24 appreciate it.
106 108
I A. It's typically a foam sheet,one to two inches 1 BY MS.OFTRING:
2 thick,and it's a typical application. It's applied for 2 0. Just that July--
3 insulation,and it provides a substrate that the adhesives 3 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yeah,that's the
4 stick to. 4 sole letter,yes.
5 Q. And what is that material? 5 0. Is that a letter that you authored yourself?
6 A. It's a foam. 6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And it's approximately one to two inches thick? '7 Q. And that's your signature on the bottom,correct?
8. A. Depending upon application,yes. a A. (Deponent viewing document). It is,yes.
9 0. Is it possible to remove that without destroying 9 0. And in your letter, you refer to an inspection
10 it? 10 report--I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce the
11 A. Generally not. 11 man's name,but it's--
12 _0. How had the sheathing been removed that was 12 MR.MUGGED: Vitukevich.
13 covering the rot--rotted areas of the joists? 13 MS.OFTRING: What is it?
14 A. In some places, it had--it was just 14 MR. MUGGEO: Vitukevich.
15 deteriorated enough that it was exposed. In other areas, 1s MS.OFTRING: There you go.
16 it had been cut back. 16 BY MS. OFTRING:
17 0. Do you know who cut it back? 17 0. --dated July 17,2006,correct?
18 A. I don't. 18 A. (Deponent viewing document). Correct.
19 0. Do you know when that was done? 19 Q. Did you,by any chance,bring that inspection
20 A. I don't. 20 report by Mr.Vitukevich dated July 1.7,2006,with you
21 Q. And I believe you had stated the photographs that 21 today?
22 are in possession--or may in the possession of the 22 A. I have not seen it in these folders.
23 building department were taken by Mr. Barbeau? 23 0. Okay. Is it possible that it's somewhere back in
24 A. Yes. 24 your office?
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Thomas J. St . Pierre July 30 , 2009
109 111
1 A. We are going to continue to look,yes, 1 Q. When you say--
2 Q. Add it to your list,please. 2 A. -It's hard to determine which or a combination of.
3 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. When you say"the brick,"you're
4 Q. And in your letter,about halfway through the 4 referring to the walls?
5 second full paragraph, it says,'It is our opinion that 5 A. Yes.
6 the engineer's letter very accurately outlines the 6 Q. Earlier when you testified today,you were asked
7 problems and the repairs required." Do you see that 7 about the observations that you made when you were up on
e sentence? a the roof looking down,and I believe your term was you saw
9 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yes. 9 water damage,rot and long-term roof leak; is that--
10 Q. And when you say'our opinion,"who are you 10 A. That's what it appeared to be from my--my
11 referring to? 11 observations,yes. -
12 A. Myself and Joe Barbeau. 12 Q. Okay. What specifically—And I'm not even
13 Q. And I take it that you had reviewed the 13 looking at any reports,so you don't need those. But
14 inspection report dated July 17,2006,and agreed with the 14 what's your memory of the specific observations that you
15 findings in that report,correct? 15 made to ascertain that there was water damage?
16 A. Yes. 16 A. The--The ends of the framing members were
17 Q. Pass that over to you. 17 clearly rotted. They don't rot in dry conditions. They
18 A. Thank you. 18 have to have moisture. The moisture either comes from a
19 Q. That,at least, is my--as far as my documents, 19 roof or a wall leak,somewhere from the outside,in this
20 a two-page letter dated July 17,2006. And I ask you, 20 case.
21 sir,does that letter appear to be the letter that you 21 Q. And when you say it was--it was"rotted,"what
22 were referring to in your July 28,2006,letter? 22 was it your--you were observing to make that conclusion
23 A. (Deponent viewing document). It does.. 23 that you see rotted wood?
24 MS.OFTRING: Can we please just get that 24 A. The physical dimensions of the lumber were no
110 112
1 marked,whatever the next exhibit is? - 1 longer there. If it was a two-by-eight, it was no longer
2 MR.JAROSAK: Off the record. 2 a two-by-eight.
3 (Discussion off the record). . 3 Q. And that actually leads to my next question. 1
4 (Exhibit-9,Letter dated 7/17/06,marked for 4 think you said that,from what you could tell,it was
5 identification). 5 mostly at the end parts of these joists that was rotted,
6 BY MS.OFTRING: 6 correct?
7 Q. Looking at,now,what's been marked as Exhibit 9, 7 A. Correct.
8 sir,the third paragraph,last sentence: "Extensive a Q. And as the joists went further interior,there
9 deterioration is visible at the ends of the framing 9 was little or no rot; is that accurate? -
10 members where they are bearing in pockets in the exterior 10 A. The--From what I could see,that appeared to be
11 brick walls.' Do you see that statement? 11 the case,yes.
12 A. (Deponent viewing document). I do. 12 Q. So in terms of at least that area of the end of
13 Q. Is that something that you agreed with based on 13 the joists that you could see rot,do you have an estimate
14 your inspection of the property? 14 as to how much of an area we're talking about that you
15 A. Yes. 15 could observe the rot on the end?
16 Q. And the second sentence atter--in the next - 16 A. Probably one foot from the edge of the roof,
17 paragraph: "The deterioration has resulted from moisture 17 back.
18 penetrating the walls during the life of the buildings." 18 Q. Okay. When you went to the property;I believe
19 Do you see that? 19 it was July 24,2006, did you--you may have answered
20 A. (Deponent viewing document)..I do. 20 this question and I missed it--did you go into the
21 Q. Would you agree with that statement? 21 interior of the rear building?
22 A. I agree--The source of the moisture, I think, 22 A. Yes,to gain access to the roof.
23 would be in question,whether it was from the brick or 23 Q. Okay. Did you speak with any of the owners in
24 from the roof. 24 the interior of the building while you were there?
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1 A. Mr. Fitzpatrick was with me,and I believe my 1 as Exhibit 10,what's the date of that record,sir?
2 recollection is that he pointed out a couple of water 2 A. (Deponent viewing document). January 15th of _
3 stains,and that we made our way up to the roof. I 3 '06. That's the best that I can tell from this writing.
4 Q. Okay. And where were the roof stains that you 4 Q. All right. Lastly,sir, I am passing to you two
5 remember? 5 more documents that I have in my file,which appearto be
6 A. I don't remember the exact locations,but there 6 letters generated from you and your office regarding this
7 was clearly some water damage. 7 particutar property,correct?
B Q. And was the water damage in Mr. Fitzpatrick's a A.- (Deponent viewing documents). Correct.
9 unit? 9 Q. Do you recognize those letters?
10 A. It was. 10 A. (Deponent viewing documents). Yes.
11 Q. Okay. Did you ever go into the other unit? 11 Q. And could you please just tell us the--the date
12 A. The downstairs unit? I don't think so. 12 of the letters?
13 Q. I want to show you another docket--document 13 A. (Deponent viewing document). The first letter is
14 that's been produced during discovery of this case. It's 14 dated August 11 of'06,and it's to the Renaissance
15 one from M&M--Is it M&M Roofers? 1s Condominium Trust. And it particularly talks about the
16 A. M&M Contractors. 16 front building,and it has to do with the clapboards in
17 Q. Contractors. Have you ever seen that document 17 exterior and the fact that they had some problems.
1e before? 1s Q. Okay. So that August 11 letter,does it strictly
19 A. (Deponent viewing document). I don't recall it. 19 deal with the front building?
20 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with M&M Contractors? 20 A. Yes.
21 A. I am. - 21 Q. Okay. And what were the issues as far as the
22 Q. What type of work do they do? 22 front building?
23 A. Strictly roofing. 23 A. (Deponent viewing document). From the front
24 Q. Okay. Do you see on the--1 think it says the 124 building,my comments were that many clapboards were
114 116
1 "Bill Te"section--That's the best copy I have. 1 cracked,hadn't been caulked at the overlap. Those
2 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yeah. 2 clapboards need to have been replaced to properly
3 Q. Does it appear to say T. St. Pierre? 3 weatherproof the exterior of the building. Also,from
4 A. (Deponent viewing document). Appears to have my 4 .about 10 feet up to the top of the building,the nails
5 name in there,yes. 5 that previously held asphalt siding were not removed;they
6 Q. But the property address is the property we're 6 were just bent over. The clapboards being caulked are not
7 talking about,correct? 7 an acceptable method of weatherproofing the.exterior of
e A. Correct. a the building as required by the building code. The nails
9 Q. And it's your testimony you have never seen that 9 higher up being bent over instead of being removed
10 document? 10 violates the workmanship section of the building code,and
11 A. (Deponent viewing document). No. This would be 11 1 cite the section.
12 unusual. 12 Q. Okay. Now,that record wasn't produced today,
13 Q. Okay. Do you know what it refers to at all? 13 conect?
14 A. (Deponent viewing document). The note in the 14 A. (Deponent viewing document). It doesn't appear
15 description of work says,"Flat roof repair." 15 to be here.
16 Q. All right. 16 Q. Is that because it relates to the front
19 MS.OFTRING: If you could do me a favor and n building?
18 just pass it to the stenographer,and we'll have that 1e A. No. To be honest with you,it should be--
19 marked as Number 10,please. 19 should be in these folders.
20 (Discussion off the record). 20 O. All right. And the second letter that you have
21 (Exhibit-1 0,Document dated 1/15/06,marked 21 is August 17,correct?
22 for identification). 22 A. Correct. -
23 BY MS.OFTRING: 23 Q. And does that relate to the first--to the front
24 Q. Just for the record,that exhibit we had marked 24 or the rear building?
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117 119
1 A. (Deponent viewing document). This was rear 1 first.
2 building. 2 0. Do you know who contacted the mayor's office?
3 0. And that's a letter that you generated and 3 A. It was a occupant of the front building. I don't
4 signed,correct? 4 remember the particular person.
5 A. Yes,it is. 5 Q. What is Mr.Silva's position at the mayor's
6 Q. Are you aware of any other letters that you or 6 office?
7 anyone on behalf of the building department for the City 7 A. He's the chief of staff or the mayor's assistant,
6 of Salem may have generated regarding the work done at the a however you want to phrase that.
9 rear building of 131 Derby Street? 9 Q. You have also copied Councillor Lucy Corchardo,
10 A. I am not. 10 Ward 1;is that correct?
11 Q. Would you agree,when you go back to your office, 11 A. That's,correct.
12 to--to make a look to see if there are any other 12 Q. Who is that person?
13 correspondence? 13 A. She,at the time,was a city councillor for that
14 A. If I can be frank,and it's on the record, 14 ward. And again,if it went through the mayor's office or
15 obviously,I hope to find that we have overlooked a 15 came through a councillor,we would just,by practice,try
16 folder,to be honest with you. 16 to copy the councillor and that ward so they know what's
17 0. Okay. 17 going on.
18 A. Obviously there's quite a bit. 18 Q. Did you have any discussions with Mr.Silva or
19 0. All right. 19 Ms.Corchardo about 131 Rear Derby Street?
20 MS.OFTRING: If you could do me afavor and 20 A. I don't recall any conversations with them.
21 pass that to the stenographer,and we will have them 21 0. When's the last time you spoke with Joseph
22 marked 11 --what are we up to--A and B. 22 Barbeau?
23 (Discussion off the record). 23 A. I have received entails from Joe from time to
24 (Exhibit-11 A,Letter dated 8/11/06; 24 time,just in a friendly conversation type thing. I
118 120
1 Exhibit-11 B;Letter dated 8/17/06,marked for 1 haven't talked to him directly in probably six months.
2 identification). 2 - Q. During any of the email correspondence that you
3 MS.OFTRING: All right. I don't have any 3 had with him,did you ever discuss 131 Rear Derby Street?
4 other questions,but I reserve the right to reconvene when 4 A. No.
5 new documents may be produced. 5 0. Did you have any communications at all with
6 EXAMINATION 6 Mr.Barbeau about any inspections that either he did or
7 BY-MS.HARDY: 7 you did regarding 131 Derby Street?
8 0. Good afternoon,sir. My name is Jennifer Hardy. 8 A. We had conversations after the problems were
9 1 represent Coldwell Banker in this case. 9 identified,yes.
10 Turning your attention to the document that's in 10 Q. What did you discuss with Mr.Barbeau on those
11 front of you,the two 11 A and 11 B,you appear to have 11 occasions?
12 copied Jason Silva of the mayor's office on that letter; 12 A. Well,we were concerned about the--the--what
13 is that correct? 13 we had found,and we were concerned about doing some
14 A. That's correct. 14 documentation on it. And I did ask Joe to take some
15 Q. And why--why did you do that? 1s pictures.
16 A. It's frequently the practice,especially if our 16 Q. Were you personally concerned?
17 complaint came in either through the mayors office or 17 A. Yes.
18 through the councillor's office,to cc them so that they 16 Q. And why is that?
19 know that a response has gone back out. 19 A. Any time there's a building problem such as what
20 Q. In this case,did you receive--did--did they 20 was discovered here, I would think I'd be remiss if I was
21 submit a complaint through the mayors office;do you 21 not concerned.
22 know? 22 0. Were you concerned that you were going to be
23 A. My recollection is that it came,initially, 23 subject to suit?
24 through the mayor's office,that someone contacted them 24 A. No.
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121 123
1 Q. Do you know who Dan Fox is? 1 completion of a building project. And under the rules of
2 A. Dan Fox, yes. 2 the Mass, building code, under controlled construction,
3 Q. Did you ever speak with him about 131 Derby 3 this is a--we would consider this the architect's
4 Street? 4 affidavit stating that the project complied with all
s A. I don't recall any specific conversation, but if s applicable codes and is ready for the issuance of a CO.
6 I'm correct,Dan Fox is a realtor. 6 Q. What's the date on that document?
7 Q. Correct. 7 A. (Deponent viewing document). November 11th of
e A. Yeah,okay. a 105.
9 Q. Did you ever speak with anyone at Coldwell Banker 9 Q. And who's the document from?
10 about 131 Derby Street? 10 A. Steven Livermore,president of H. H. Morant.
11 A. I can't remember anything specifically. a Q. Is there a seal on the document?
12 Q. Did you ever speak with either Dan Fox or anyone 12 A. There is.
13 at Coldwell Banker about any inspections that you did of 13 Q. Okay. And who's the document addressed to?
14 Derby Street? 14 A. To myself. -
15 A. I don't recall any. 15 Q. And does the document indicate that part of the
16 Q. Do you know what Coldwell Banker did to market 16 opinion that this is--the building at 131 Derby Street
17 the property located at 131 Derby Street? 17 - Rear is--is safe for occupancy or ready for a
18 A. No. 18 certificate of occupancy,does it indicate that's based on
19 Q. That's all I-have. Thank you. 19 site visits?
20 MS.HARDY: Again, I reserve too,subject to 20 A. (Deponent viewing document). Yes.
21 the production of additional documents. 21 Q. Okay. And that document--Mr. Fitzpatrick came
22 MR.O'SHEA: Want to try and get 12 minutes 22 to your office. You indicated you had several
23 _ in or you want to suspend? 23 conversations with him in the summer of 2006;is that
24 MR. MUGGEO: You're going to have more than 124 right? _
122 124
1 12 minutes? 1 A. Yes.
2 MR.O'SHEA: A lot more than 12 minutes. 2 Q. And during one of those conversations,isn't it
3 MR.MUGGED: Well, I think you answered the 3 true that you went through your documentation of the City
4 question. 4 of Salem and you discovered that document?
5 THE DEPONENT: Yeah. s A. I-I can't say for sure.
6, MS. HARDY: Can we talk about dates,then? 6 Q. In fact-
7 MR. MUGGED: Off the record. 7 A. I would expect to find it there,yes.
e (Discussion off the record). s Q. in fact,you showed that document to
9 MR.O'SHEA: ,lames O'Shea on behalf of the 9 Mr_Fitzpatrick,and you said,whoof,thank God;isn't
10 plaintiff. 10 that right,or words to that effect?
u Could I have Exhibit Number 7,please? 11 A. Yes.
12 ., EXAMINATION 12- Q. And you were expressing that because you rely on
13 BY-MR.O'SHEA: 13 these architects in order to issue these certificates of
14 Q. And direct your attention to the--what's on top 14 occupancy;isn't that right?
15 of the first page of Exhibit Number 7. 1s MR.JAROSAK: Objection.
16 MR.O'SHEA: If we could have that marked as 16 A. We do.
17 7A. 17 Q. And you relied--The city relied on--on this
1e (Exhibit-7A, Document dated 11/11/05, marked 18 certificate,as you've phrased it,as an affidavit in
19 for identification). 19 order to issue the certificate of occupancy for 131 Derby
20 BY MR,O'SHEA: 20 Street Rear,
21 Q. Can you take a look at 7A and tell me what that 21 MR.JAROSAK: Objection.
22 is after you've had a chance to read it? 22 A. That's correct.
23 A. (Deponent viewing document). This is a--what 23 Q. And getting back to what's been labeled as
24 we would expect--I discussed this earlier--at the 124 Exhibit 8A,your letter of July the 28th--Here's a copy
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125 127
1 of the same. 1 MR.MUGGED: Objection.
2 A. (Deponent viewing document). 2 A. Yes.
3 0. You indicated in 8A that the building, 131 Derby 3 Q. And what do you base that opinion on?
4 Street Rear,the garage roof and--and the other roof 4 MR.MUGGED: Objection.
5 were unsafe. What did you mean by"unsafe"? 5 A. My experience in the field actually as a builder
6 A. Unsafe,basically,is exactly what it means;that 6 pnor to becoming a building inspector.
7 it's--needs to be repaired,and it can't stay the way it 7 Q. Do you recall another conversation you had with
8 is. It's--it's not safe to continue using it. s Mr.Fitzpatrick in which he showed you a series of
9 Q. Were both the garage roof and the roof over the 9 pictures on his computer?
10 structure at 131 Rear unsafe for occupancy? 10 A. I don't recall.
11 A. In my opinion,yes. 11 Q. Do you recall him showing you a series of
12 0. Okay. And so,in other words,the document 12 pictures on his computer that would evidence HVAC venting
13 that's been labeled 7A from H. H.Morant was incorrect. 13 being rammed through rotted boards at the property?
14 MR.JAROSAK: Objection. 14 A. Yes, I do recall that.
15 A. (Deponent viewing document). It appears to 15 Q. So you've seen those pictures?
16 contradict it,yes. 16 A. I believe I have,yes.
17 Q. Okay. And based on your visit to the property at 17 0. Okay. And--And is that consistent with the
1s 131 Derby Street Rear on July the 24th,2006,you've 18 building code?
19 testified that the--the roof joists over the garage and 19 MR.JAROSAK: Objection.
20 the roof joists on the main roof were rotted;is that 20 A. No,Its not.
21 right? - 21 0. If you had observed the conditions that you saw
22 A. That's right. 22 at 131 Derby Street Rear on July the 24th,2006,prior to
23 Q. And that the joists themselves were compromised; 23 the occupancy permit being issued,would you have issued
24 they weren't even the same size anymore? 24 an occupancy permit?
126 128
1. A. That's correct. 1 MR.MUGGED: Objection.
2 0. In your experience as a building inspector and an 2 MR.WHITE:-Objection.
3 assistant building inspector,combined for about 12 years, 3. A. No, I would not have.
4 is it your opinion that--that this type of damage could 4 Q. Why not?
5 have occurred in six or seven months from the time of 5 MR.MUGGED: Objection.
6 November when occupancy was certified to the time that you 6 MR.WHITE: Objection.
7 first looked at it in July of'06? 7 A. It would not have been structurally sound as
8 MR.MUGGED: Objection. 8 outlined in the building code.
9 MS.HARDY: Objection. 9 Q. And I believe you testified that Exhibit 7A,that
10- THE DEPONENT: Answer? 10 affidavit,as you described it,from H. H.Morant,
11 MR.PARISELLA: Sure. 11 November 11th,2005,is consisted--consistent with a--
12 A. I would say unlikely. 12 an affidavit for a controlled building;is that right?
13 0. Okay. And what would you base that on? 13 MR.JAROSAK: Objection.
14 A. Just experience. Just the deterioration of wood 14 A. That's correct.
15 just doesn't happen that quickly unless conditions are 15 0. So it's clear to you from that that H.H.Morant
16 ideal. 16 treated this project as a controlled building.
17 Q. Do you think there could have been one Mother's 17 MR.JAROSAK: Objection.
18 Day storm that caused that type of deterioration of those 18 A. Yes.
19 joists? 19 MR.O'SHEA: I'm going to reserve on the
20 A. No. 20 rest. -
21 MR.MUGGED: Objection, 21 MR.JAROSAK: Okay. I guess at this point
22 BY MR.O'SHEA: 22 we're going to suspend the deposition. The witness will
23 Q. Do you think,based on your view of it,that that 23 work with his counsel to provide us with additional
24 type of deterioration occurred over a period of years? 24 documentation,and once we've had it received,the parties
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1 will,in all probability,attempt to reconvene the 1 CAPTION
2 deposition. 2 The deposition of Thomas J.St. Pierre,was taken
3 (Deposition of THOMAS J.ST. PIERRE adjourned 3 in the matter,on the date,and at the time and place set
4 at 4:26 p.m.) 4 out on the title page thereof.
5 5 It was requested that the deposition be taken by
6 6 the reporter and that same be reduced to typewritten form.
7 7 It was agreed by and between counsel and the
8 8 parties that the deponent will read and sign the
9 9 transcript of said deposition.
10 10
11 11
12 12
13 13
14 14
15 15
16 16
17 17
18 18
19 19
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
130 132
1 CERTIFICATE - 1 DEPOSITION ERRATA SHEET
2 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS) 2 RE: Esquire Deposition Solutions
I File No.x3878
3 ) 3 Case Caption: Charlotte Fitzpatrick
4 COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX ) vs.Lewis Leger,at al.
s I,Ayako Odanaka,a Certified Realtime Reporter, 4 -
6 Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public duly I Deponent: Thomas J.St.Pierre
7 commissioned and qualified in and for the Commonwealth of 5 Deposition Date: July 30,2009
e To the Reporter:
8 Massachusetts,do hereby certify that the witness whose I have read the entire transcript of my deposition taken
9 deposition is hereinbefore set forth,was duty sworn by me 7 In the captioned matter or the same has been read to me.
10 and that such deposition is a true record of the testimony I request that the following changes be entered upon the
8 record for the reasons indicated. I have signed my name
it .given by thew witness. - to the Errata Sheet and the appropriate Certificate and
12 further certify that am neither related to or authorize you to attach both to the original transcript.
13 employed by any of the parties in or counsel to this 10 Pape No._Line No._Change to
14 action,nor am I financially interested in the outcome of 11
15 this action. 12 Reason for change:
13 Page Na_Line No._Change to
16 In witness whereof,I have hereunto set my hand 14 _
17 and seal this 7th day of August 2009. 1s Reason for change:_ -
18 16 Page Na._Line No._Change to:
1
19 7
1e Reason for change: _
20 Ayako Odanaka,CRR, RPR 19 Page No._Line No._Change to:
21 CSR No.147904 20 _
22 My Commission Expires 21 Reason for change:
22 Page No._Line No _Change to:
z3 February 25,2011 ( 23
24 124 Reason for change:
.- Toll Free: 866.619.3925
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Thomas J. St . Pierre July 30, 20P-9
133
1 Deposition of Thomas J.St.Pierre
2
3 Page No._Line No._Change to:
4
5 Reason for change:
6 Page No._Line No._Change to:
s Reason for change:
9 Page No,_Line No._Change to:
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17 Reason for change.
1e Page No._Line No._Change to:
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20 Reason for change:
21
22
23 SIGNATURE:-DATE-
24
IGNATURE: DATE:24 Thomas J.St.Pierre
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COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
BUILDING CODE APPEALS BOARD
In the Matter of:
C1 _
Derby Street,_Salem, MA
Docket Number: 05-097
Appellant: Lewis Legon
Hearing Date: August 23, 2005
Present: Joseph E. Barbeau, Jr., Stephen Livermore,Alexander MacLeod,
Sean MacDonald, Jake Nunnemacher and Patty Barry
INTRODUCTION
Pursuant to M.G.L. Ch.,143, section 100, M.G.L. Ch. 30A and 801 CMR 1.02 and
1.03, hearings were held before the Building Code Appeals Board in Wellesley,
Massachusetts on July 19, 2005 and August 23, 2005, to consider the appeal of Lewis
Legon (hereinafter referred to as "Appellant"). Notices for the first hearing were sent out
on July 5, 2005 to the Appellant, the Building Commissioner for the City of Salem and
the Salem Fire Department. Notices for the second hearing, on August 23, 2005, were
sent out to the same individuals on August 9, 2005.
All witnesses were duly sworn at the start of the hearing. The proceedings were
recorded, and the tapes of the proceedings are available at the Office of the Building Code
Appeals Board, in the Department of Public Safety, upon request and reasonable advance
notification. The following findings and conclusions are based upon the testimony and
documents offered by the witnesses, as well as the administrative records of the Building
Code Appeals Board.
FINDINGS OF FACT
1. The Appellant is Lewis Legon of 221 Washington Street, Salem,
Massachusetts:
2. Appellant is altering an existing building located at 131 Derby Street,
Salem, Massachusetts, the property affected by these proceedings.
3. At issue is the Appellant's desire to incorporate 12 new windows in an
existing non-conforming wall located on the rear of the brick structure.
4. Appellant appeals from a letter dated April 20, 2005, from Thomas St.
Pierre, the Building Commissioner for the City of Salem, which denied relief from the
Building Regulations described in 780 CMR 705.3 (Sixth Edition).
5. At the first hearingbefore the Board, the Board expressed its sense that the
proposed 12 new window openings did not meet the intent of the Code. As a result,the
Appellant requested a continued hearing before the Board, so that he could re-evaluate his
needs on the structure.
6. At the second hearing before the Board, Appellant's architect, Stephen
Livermore, advised the Board that as a result of a review conducted by the owner as to its
alternatives relative to window openings, the owner has elected to proceed with"a glass
block"alternative. Data supplied by the manufacturer indicates that such an assembly
provides a sixty-minute LTL Classified, fire rating. As a result, the revised plan meets the
requirements of Section 705.3.
7. The revision to the plans relating to the glass block assembly are fully
supported both by the Salem Building Commissioner, who wrote a letter in support, and
the Fire Marshall from the City of Salem.
CONCLUSION AND ORDER
Based on the foregoing, and upon motion made and duly seconded, it was
unanimously; voted,that the Application for Variance relative to the provisions of 705.3
of the Building Code be, and hereby is, GRANTED.
SO ORDERED,
SEAN MACDONALD
Chairman
ALEXANDER MACLEOD
JAkE NUNNEMACHER
DATED: October 26 , 2005
In accordance with MGL, Chapter 30A, Section 14, any person aggrieved by this decision
may appeal the decision to a court of competent jurisdiction within 30 days.